Christine DaaÃ© [Archive] - The Phantom's Opera

Evaline Cuomo

03-30-2005, 08:02 PM

Meg Giry

04-01-2005, 04:35 PM

The only point at which Christine annoys me (we're talking stage and screen here, I haven't read the book so I'm not sure about differences yet) is after the gala where she's talking to Meg about the Angel of Music. How could she have believed this guy was her father returned from the dead? I did think that was a little too naive for my tastes. Otherwise, I quite like her.

Evaline Cuomo

04-15-2005, 04:04 AM

Actually, she didn't believe that the Angel was her father. She believed that he was an angel sent to her by her father.

I've read most of the book and the story goes that those who have musical genuis have been touched by the Angel of Music. He promises Chrisitne that when he is in Heaven, he will send the Angel of Music to touch her with the gift.

Think she's naive in the movie? Read the book.

Meg Giry

04-23-2005, 11:34 AM

I'm speaking in terms of interpretation, really - in the production I saw, the lyrics were slightly different to those in the OLC production and the film - why the director did that I don't know. But she was portrayed as being so close to the Phantom because she at one point believed that was what he was - her father, to whom she was close, and that was why it took her so long to pull away from him emotionally. It made her seem a bit of an idiot, to be honest.

I love the bit in the stage show where she stands up to Carlotta though - after the 'Notes' reprise in Act 2.

cinty

04-26-2005, 02:26 PM

Really? What part is that, where Christine stands up to Carlotta? I really want to hear that!! Oh i can't wait for the stage show!
with that angel of music and thinking that her father was coaching her thing, just listen clostly to Angel of Music. christine speaks the line. She tells meg, just before she starts singing "Father ONce Spoke of an angel" about hte angel that is tutoring her. Meg says, "christine do you really believe the spirit of your father is coaching you" and christine says "Who else Meg? Who else?" it's not on teh cd but it's on teh movie. I think that's what Carlotta was referring to.
To say what I think of christine- i like her. I think she is beautiful and innocent but she also has her darker side, displayed in Point of No Return. by the end of hte movie she has become a woman. I like Erik and Raoul more than her but she is very lovely.

IamErik771

05-02-2005, 02:29 AM

Originally posted by cinty
Really? What part is that, where Christine stands up to Carlotta? I really want to hear that!! Oh i can't wait for the stage show!

In the stage show (during a reprise of 'Notes' in Act 2), after Carlotta finds out that Christine has received the lead role in Don Juan Triumphant, she accuses Christine of setting up the whole thing to make herself a star. From the libretto for the stage show:
CARLOTTA: (unable to contain herself any longer,
points accusingly)
She's the one behind this!
Christine Daae!
CHRISTINE: (who has been silent till now, incensed at
this)
How dare you!
CARLOTTA: I'm not a fool!
CHRISTINE: You evil woman! How dare you!
CARLOTTA: You think I'm blind?
CHRISTINE: This isn't my fault!
I don't want any part in this plot!

I really wish that had been in the film. :D

cinty

05-02-2005, 04:33 AM

Oh my goodness, that sounds awesome!!! i wish they had it in the movie!!! Thankyou for posting that for me.

Evaline Cuomo

05-03-2005, 04:10 AM

Cinty - Please don't make one line posts. That's spam. Make it more substantial.

Selenity

05-04-2005, 03:21 AM

Originally posted by Christine Daae
[B]Actually, she didn't believe that the Angel was her father. She believed that he was an angel sent to her by her father.

In the movie, she did believe that it was her father...

Meg: Christine, do you believe...do you think the spirit of your father is coaching you?
Christine: Who else Meg? Who?

As to whether or not Christine is innocent, naive, etc. I think it depends on the actress who plays her. I've seen 5 Christine's live, but I can only remember Julie Hanson, so I'm going to use her and Emmy Rossum for my references;

Julie played Christine innocent, curious, timid, playful, and strong. Never naive. She gives Christine a back-bone, which is something special I think.

Now, I think Emmy did a wonderful job with what was given to her, but unlike Julie's strong Christine, she had to portray a naive one. And the big doe-eyed innocent look added too it.

Sincerely,
Selenity

cinty

05-04-2005, 05:16 AM

Originally posted by Christine Daae
Cinty - Please don't make one line posts. That's spam. Make it more substantial.
I apologize.
Recently, I had the pleasure to hear that part that the lyrics above are posted for- the part where Christine stands up to Carlotta. I heard Sarah Brightmans' version. I thought it was great. Such a shame they left it out of the movie.
I've heard of Julie Hanson, Selenity. She sounds very good indeed. :) I believe that she and Sandra Dundale take it in turns to perform Christine on Broadway?
I think those extra lyrics between Christine and Carlotta give Christine alot more backbone. Christine is sweet and lovely, but she also can be strongwilled. I think if they had left that part in the movie, we could like Christine even more.

Selenity

05-06-2005, 03:19 AM

Originally posted by cinty I've heard of Julie Hanson, Selenity. She sounds very good indeed. :) I believe that she and Sandra Dundale take it in turns to perform Christine on Broadway?

Do you mean Sandra Joseph? She's the prinicpal Christine on Broadway and Julie Hanson is the alternate. I wish it were the other way around though ;)

Sincerely,
Selenity

cinty

05-06-2005, 12:31 PM

Oh I'm sorry. I got the last names confused. I meant Sandra Joseph. But isn't Sandra Joseph good too? That is what I have heard. Have you seen both women perform? I am so jealous of people who have seen more than one performance of it! I am just dying to see it on stage!!

Opera Ghost

05-08-2005, 11:32 AM

I think she's pretty naive about the whole Phantom being an Angel thing..but that's just my opinion.
One thing that really annoys me is that Christine, after she faints when she sees her statue/image in the Phantoms cave, still manages to point her toes whilst out cold :D How many people d'you think remember to point their toes whilst they faint...*raises eyebrow*

Christine Daaé

05-11-2005, 04:43 AM

Some say Christine is too stupid and wishy-washy to be deserving of the Phantom's love. What I ask is this: what would you do in her place? Two guys are after you, one whom you've had a huge crush on since you were fifteen, the other who writes operas for you, teaches you to sing, kills for you in hopes of somehow making you love him. What would you do? I'll tell you something, I wouldn't know what to do. Loving two people at once isn't hard -- it's happened to me. I identify with Christine, as I was once in her shoes.

~ Zelda de le FantÃ´me

The Phantom

05-30-2005, 09:06 AM

I wouldn't say that Christine was the bit stupid at all. She was a very intelligent girl but she was caught between two worlds and she couldn't decide between each. Keep in mind, her character is supposed to be only 16 or so... and teenage emotions can get in the way many times. ;)

Luciana

06-25-2005, 09:48 AM

YoungGiry

06-25-2005, 03:17 PM

She is naive, but that isn't neccesarily a bad thing. But I do think that she is a darker character then many think. As many have said, she does grow during the story, and in many ways th entire story is the story of her growth into maturity. But of course there are other aspects to the story as well...

Mouette

07-11-2005, 11:58 PM

I generally like Christine, but occasionally (particularly in Kay's novel) I feel a strong urge to shake her. Such as when she betrays Erik (in both Leroux's and Kay's work) by deciding that she isn't going to tell him what her choice (Wretched Boy or Angel?) is. She has chosen to stay with this man for days on end alone in his home, and he has never layed a finger on her. Can't she trust and respect him enough to at least let him know what her decision is?! Of course, she is young . . . and Erik is a singularly confusing person. But still . . . if she could have just trusted him!

Erik

09-04-2005, 02:56 PM

I agree with you, Zelda. She's torn between two men, both ready to kill each other for her love. It isn't flip-of-the-coin decision, and the pressure is all on her.

RoseDark

09-05-2005, 04:21 AM

I feel Christine is very spiritual and a dreamer to the point of not always having the strongest hold on reality as we know it, but that's what I love about her. I also got the impression that she does have strength, but, in some versions, due to the dependant nature of her upbringing, she doesn't always realise it, which is why she'd look for protection or a decision to be taken out of her hands.

FallenRose123

01-14-2006, 10:04 PM

I agree with Zelda and Sam. She isn't just going to flip a coin and if it lands on heads she gets Erik or tails she gets Raoul. Though she seams to be afraid to things she has to do. In the swordfight she just stands there. She could of just said STOP! You can't have two men fighting over you until you die. Just choose, and not by looks, by personality.

Christine Daaé

01-18-2006, 11:55 PM

Discuss the blue-eyed blonde version of Christine, the very first, here.

Christine Daaé

01-18-2006, 11:56 PM

Discuss the Kay Christine here.

Christine Daaé

01-18-2006, 11:58 PM

Discuss the blue-eyed brunette of Webber's version here.

Christine Daaé

01-19-2006, 12:01 AM

Discuss Emmy Rossum's portrayal of Christine here.

The Trapdoor Lover

01-19-2006, 01:52 AM

I thought Emmy Rossum did a pretty good job. But then I listened to the movie in French, and the girl that sang it in French had a good voice too. I wonder how she would have done as Christine.

Reza Khan

01-19-2006, 01:56 AM

I have to say that this version is my phavorite. She's the strongest, least naive oph all the main versions, which I really love. And she's blue-eyed with brown hair, like me. So she's ophphicially cool. :D

Let's here some more opinions!

IamErik771

01-19-2006, 02:41 AM

Leroux's version of Christine struck me as starting out very child-like and innocent, but quickly becoming more secretive and deceptive towards Raoul and Mama Valerius when her relationship with Erik began. However, her character is, in some ways, just as mysterious as Erik; her reasons for doing certain things aren't always clear. Are they simply to protect Raoul from Erik, or is there some deeper reason behind them?

Regardless, I'm glad that Leroux opted to make Christine a stronger character, rather than focusing on the male protagonist like most other authors would have done. IMO, that helped to make Christine one of the best-written characters of that period.

IamErik771

01-19-2006, 02:45 AM

ALW's Christine is probably my favorite version of the character. She has quite a bit more depth than in Kay's adaptation, or in most film versions. I have a hard time deciding who has more depth overall: Leroux's Christine, or ALW's. I love how she's able to stand up to Carlotta in Notes 2, and then ultimately say "enough is enough" to Erik during the Final Lair scene, when he really does lose control.

IamErik771

01-19-2006, 03:13 AM

I thought Emmy's portrayal was quite good. I did like her singing, though I concede that it could have been better. I'm just extremely glad that JS didn't cast Katie Holmes . . . *shudders*

In interviews, Joel Schumacher said that he believed the reason behind Erik's attraction to Christine was the fact that she remained pure and innocent despite the world she lived in. (Penny-pinching managers, temperamental diva, perverted stagehands, nude statues everywhere.) While I think that's a reasonable theory, it fails to account for why Erik would then want to "deflower" her by forcing her to perform in a sensual piece like Don Juan Triumphant.

NEH

01-20-2006, 02:57 AM

Oh, come now: "deflower" is a bit harsh..... i dont think that Don Juan was menat to be a violation on her innocence, but a sort of awakening for her to more adult emotions which, i'm sure in Eriks mind, would make her all the more beautiful... you know, he wanted to take a precious flower and truly make it bloom, but everyone else would view the process as tainting. Personally, i love love love "Point of no Return" in the film, as it shows a truly sacred moment in time for Erik and Chris... and Emmy's voice is never beeter methinks than in that song, when its raging with emotion and a maturity not present before... but thats just me!

NEH

01-20-2006, 03:03 AM

Well, as no one else has started the ball rolling, i guess i might say she seems much more detailed in motive and feeling - and therefore perhaps a little more likeable than in film versions in particular.... hmm, i dont know... i havent read it for ages, and Leroux's Chris sticks out in my mind at the moment...

IamErik771

01-20-2006, 03:20 AM

Hmm . . . perhaps. I guess it's up to each person's individual interpretation. And I agree with you about Emmy being at her best during PONR. :D

erik's_admirer

01-28-2006, 03:28 AM

PONR is DEFINITLY my fav song & scene, and i agree, she does sing best in Don Juan. Definitly.

AAW0487

01-28-2006, 08:36 AM

I agree that her voice was more mature during PONR, but I must say that I loved her voice from the beginning of the movie until the end. And from what books i've read from Gaston Leroux and Nancy Pettengill, she looks and acts exactly the part of Christine.

AAW0487

01-28-2006, 08:43 AM

There are a few different variations of both books about blues eyes and blonde hair, but I still think Emmy was beautiful for the part. Andrew Lloyd Webber said she was perfect for the part because she was so beautifully innocent and her acting protrayed the part of Christine without fault.

:cd9: :cd6:

Parisian Phantom

01-28-2006, 10:02 AM

I have always loved Emmy Rossum, from the first moment I saw her on screen as Christine Daae. Her voice also deeply impressed me, for it was perfectly for the kind of character she was portraying. I absolutely loved her voice in each song of the movie, it was definetly a great idea to cast her and she didn't disappoint me in any moment. It's true that her voice sounded the most mature in The Point Of No Return, but, honestly, I've always loved her. :) And she's a very natural and innocent beauty as well.

Christine Daaé

02-18-2006, 02:21 AM

Yes, Emmy is beautiful. Very beautiful. Her voice . . . eh. Mediocre, but if she had more training, she could have been spectacular.

I don't know. I'm just really biased against her. Maybe because Sarah Brightman will always be MY ALW Christine.

~ Zelda

Christine Daaé

02-18-2006, 02:27 AM

I didn't like this Christine AT ALL. She was SO weak. Not at all like the CANON Christine, who actually has a bit of a spine.

Kay destroyed her. Christine was naive and not tough at all, while the canon Christine was as tough as she needed to be, though still somewhat naive throughout some of Leroux's book.

Though I love Kay, I have to say that her rendition of Christine was awful. And making her look like Erik's Maman? Exactly like her? That was . . . ick. Giving Erik an Oedipus complex is not cool to me.

~ Zelda

Christine Daaé

02-18-2006, 02:28 AM

This is my favorite rendition of Christine -- because she has more spine than all the others, and because I look like her. Heh.

Meh. I'm biased toward blue-eyed brunette Christines, I guess, even though everything else about POTO had better be canon. Am I weird, or what?

~ Zelda

Phantompherak12

02-19-2006, 04:53 AM

Okay, she did a lot of stuff wrong! All my friends think, she has such a good voice. To tell the truth she stunk it up! Even though she has been singing in the MET for a while she was really bad. You are supposed to sing with your italian vouls. Which are, ah, eh, ee, oo, oh. She did it way to American. She might have had the looks for Christine but not the voice.

Erik

03-24-2006, 05:14 AM

Christine kind of made me mad. In Point of no Return (which seems to be the hot topic here) I really didn't like her acting - she looked like she agreed with everything Erik was saying, until she ripped his flipping mask of. Grrrrr.

That makes me mad. Anywho, I did, however, enjoy her preformance when she's singing Angel of Music, especially at thebeginning, when she starts with "Father once spoke of an angel. . ." Yep. I did.

syioandthephantom

03-30-2006, 06:20 PM

Hmmmm. I have very mixed views of Emmy. She can be very pretty, but sometimes I just don't like her.

I think her voice is nice, it's fit more for the screen than for stage, like Sarah Brightman's is more for stage. Truly Emmy has a nice voice, but I agree with Zelda, Sarah Brightman was the first Christine I ever heard, and I definately prefer her.

Though Emmy puts a nice new twist on the story, and is quite a good actress. ^_^

The Floor

04-18-2006, 07:27 PM

Hmm... well... hmm... I think it's time for me to post my thoughts. I believe that Emmy Rossum portrayed Christine as faaaar too innocent. If you'll recall, Christine did have a difficult childhood... not knowing her mother, losing her father... a very depressing history if ever there was one. We can actually blame her father for doing this, however. If he hadn't poured his obsession with music into Christine, she would have been less the airy dreamer we know from the movie, and more the strong willed & independant beauty from the play... strange thing is, they're supposed to be nearly identical. The movie just does not do the plotline justice; cutting out multiple lines & scenes...

Anyways, to get back on topic: I think that Christine is really too dreamy; too light and insubstantial. I realize that that was what drew Erik to her, but it destroyed her in the end. (Thus, my interpretation of her having died of a broken heart.)
Toodles!

soprano101

05-07-2006, 11:10 PM

i thought emmy was really good but she could have done better it was only her first movie where she sang in it. she is stealing my poto. well does anyone love poto as much as me?

Christine Daaé

06-06-2006, 09:12 PM

It is her father's fault she's got no clue about how predators work. When Christine finally does figure out that Erik is a predator who won't let her go -- in the ALW version, anyway -- she is close to a mental breakdown from the stress of it all. Or do people miss why she goes to the graveyard for comfort from her dead father? She thinks if she can fully say goodbye to her father, she can say goodbye to the notion that the Angel of Music -- Erik -- will be able to redeem her. If she can do that, she will finally realize that she doesn't need Erik as a way to cling to her father. It's not just "help me say goodbye" to her father; it's also "help me say goodbye" to Erik.

With that said, it amazes me that so many phangirls actually want to be in the shoes of someone who's way in over her head and is about to break down because of it. Why do people want to be pursued by a "romantic" psychopath? Can anyone explain this to me?

~ Zelda

Minoru Inoue

06-09-2006, 05:27 AM

@ Zelda: He's passionate. He's disfigured, and psychotic, but women tend to have a need to take care of someone. And they feel Christine wronged him by not taking care of him. Plus, he is passionate and talented, and he is quite seductive, so that draws women in. Most are blind to seduction by a predator until it is too late, and most women think they can "change" a man.

Christine started off naiive. It's easy to see. But by the end, she is capable of making the hardest of decisions. She is a very capable girl, but she had to go through a lot to get there. Poor thing. Oh, and I was pretty sure the real Christine was about 20 or something. o__o It'd be seriously disgusting if Erik went after a 16-year-old, and it's bad enough if she's 20.

AAW0487

06-10-2006, 06:45 AM

Christine does act naive towards the beginning and im not even sure at the end if she knew that she made the right deicison by choosing Roaul. At least in the movie she looks back at him and sings to him in a longing way. And in the play she also crys when she leaves Erik. Either way though I love her character. She is faced with the toughest decision of her life. To choose between two people that are very opposite, whom she loves deeply. Without her character it would have been very hard to have POTO at all!

AAW0487

06-10-2006, 06:46 AM

Once again my computer had decided to double post...::sigh:: Oh well I will continue to talk about Chistine then. I have loved Christine in "The Phantom" by Susan Kay, Journey of the Mask, and so far The Phantom of Paris. She is very intelligent and passionate about caring for the Phantom and trying to be there for him.

Christine's Shadow

06-10-2006, 06:42 PM

By far this is my fave portrayal of Christine. I'm not sure why though, I just really love the stage, sadly I've never seen it...yet!

Does anyone have a personal favourite stage actress? I mean one whom played Christine. I have to say I LOVE Sarah Brightman and Julie Hanson's renditions of Christine. Both amazing portrayals =] Along with Sandra Joseph!! So my question to you all is- Do you have a favourite actress for Christine?

AAW0487

07-03-2006, 05:38 AM

I love Emmy Rossum! Though I do need to see the other Christine's as well! But Emmy I thought did a wonderful job! She seemed to fit the part of Christine beautifully! ALW 's version of Christine was the first I was able to see so she'll probably always be my favorite!:cd1: :cd9:

AAW0487

07-03-2006, 05:57 AM

If I have my books straight..which its very late so if I dont make sense...my deepest apologies, but didn't Christine freak out over a spider?? I thought it was pretty funny. And although I couldn't really blame her because I dont like them either. But shouldnt she have figured out that Erik took it the wrong way? I agree that she really didn't seem to have a lot of spine. Can't say that this is my favorite Christine version.

AAW0487

07-03-2006, 06:03 AM

I totally agree with you James! Leroux was able to makes a pretty strong character of Christine. She wouldn't let Raoul push her into telling him something if she didn't want to. I kinda wonder why she hid some of the things she did from Raoul and Mama Valerius.. I'm hoping because she did love Erik and wanted to protect him! Either way I do like his portrayl of Christine.
:cd11:

AngelicRose

07-08-2006, 03:47 AM

Yeah, Christine freaked out about a spider in this book.

Susan Kay's book is my favorite, but I agree that this Christine is definitely not my favorite.

getzell

07-13-2006, 09:26 PM

I think she did a great job though she had a few flaws she did well.

MedievalCatholic

07-13-2006, 10:49 PM

I think Christine wasn't clever enough in the novel. When I read the book, I expected a smarter Christine, and I didnt get it.

o_O;

07-16-2006, 01:00 AM

I thought she was a good choice, I like her more than Sarah Brightman. Although when she was in a 'trance', she could've showed a bit more expression. Half of the time she looked... well, stoned.

northangel27

08-09-2006, 08:42 PM

Ah, and here we come to possibly the most complicated character besides Erik. Yes, I do see Christine as complicated.

When I was first introduced to the tale through the ALW musical back in 1993, I didn't really understand her. Perhaps it was because I was 18 and around the same age that the character was supposed to be, but as I have matured I find that I understand her more and more and have alot more compassion for her.

Leroux's Christine is definitely the strongest, and you see a real maturity develop in her throughout the tale. It took real strength to go through what she did and come out the other side with her sanity still intact, and I think that she did an admirable job.

Here was a girl who was raised by a very superstitious father to believe that the other world is in constant communication with this, to believe that all artists are touched by angels, and that when he died he would send one to her, to guide her and care for her. Her father dies and she is left to grieve, and while she is vulnerable in her grief, an insane and tortured individual, several years her senior, with a voice from another world decideds to start stalking her, and tells her, with said dismembered voice, that he is the angel her father promised. Wow. Having been raised in a similar environment, I hate to admit it, but I would have believed it. I would have wanted to believe it so badly, that I would have.

In Leroux's book one gets the impression that Christine's relationship with her "Angel" had been going on for some time before he took her through the mirror, so there was a relationship of sorts developed there, and it must have been heartbreaking for her to realize that her "Angel" was not some heavenly creature, but was merely a man, a man who had lied to her, decieved her, and now kidnapped her, and a man whose face was so hideously deformed that there was no way he could live a normal life in normal society.

You can see Christine's inner torture as the story progresses. She cares for Raoul, she both pities and fears Erik, and as time progresses I think she begins to feel differing kinds of love for both men. But in the end she makes, I think, the only choice a young woman could make.

I think I feel more sorry for Christine than for any other character in the whole tale. In the end Raoul gets to marry her and Erik crawls back into his hole and dies, but she is left with an experience that will haunt her for the rest of her life. For a girl of no more than 20 (and possible even younger than that), that is a horrible burden to bear.

Christine Daaé

12-20-2006, 05:28 AM

Amen to that.

The poor child. Yes, in many respects she was a child, one who had to grow up terribly fast. I've always respected Christine for coming out of all this relatively okay. Sure, she probably had some psychological scars and emotional issues afterward, but hey, she didn't die.

Although, I suppose living with such things all the rest of your life can be worse than death . . . I've always identified with her, because in many ways, her story is my own.

~ Zelda

Christine

08-07-2007, 08:54 PM

Victoria

11-26-2007, 08:44 PM

I like Christine but I wish that she were more witty like she was in the 1983 television movie. Give the guys a run for their money! lol

Being serious now, yes she definitly has a lot of depth to her and I definitly like that! :p

ChristineJ16

02-01-2008, 11:10 PM

For the most part I like the character of Christine a lot. I can identify with her on some levels. I know what it's like as well to be stalked or have someone become obsessed with me. It's not fun at all, ugh! But there were some things she did that I myself never would have done. Unmasking Erik and betraying him. She knows he's dangerous and yet still she did that. Other than that I like the character.

Hidden Away

02-16-2008, 06:52 AM

I'm not sure if they did, but I'll guess, I think they deleted the song Notes II from the musical now, for I don't recall seeing it or hearing it. But in the OCR there was a part that Christine completely blew off her steam, and stood up to Carlotta with:

How dare you! Christine
Do you think I'm blind? Carlotta
How dare you! I don't want a part of this cast. . . Christine

But in the 2004 movie (only other musical source besides Vegas, NYC, and tours, OCR) and most of the performances I've seen, Christine was quiet shy and niave!!!! In the Vegas she has her dark side during The Point of No Return, but that was acting for we all know that she did love Raoul and she had to act inorder for Raoul to live and yadyadyadya! Anywho! She was basically very shy and passive. She didn't stand to anything. Her darnly blonde stares every which moment during Wandering Child, Music of the Night, and other musical numbers were completley annoying! It was very convincing. But I hate to be mean, but Christine needs to learn about how dangerous the world is. I mean my brother--who's 7--could walk the streets of Paris at night and still be safer that Miss Daae over here....I don't know how she doesn't, being so stupid! But she just does!

Hidden Away

03-09-2008, 07:28 AM

I wish that the girl will one day learn on how lucky she was to have two men to have the chance to love. I've never had the chance, but I'm still young, I shave hope. anyways, she was whining about being loved? I would rejoice if I were loved my a man...but two? She hit the jackpot! hehe! JK! but seriously! She need to to count her blessings...but I have to too, so I'm well off!

ChristineJ16

03-20-2008, 06:57 PM

As I said before I can identify with her on some levels. I myself am friendly and nice, but it tends to get me in trouble. I work at a retirement home, been there since the place opened 6 years ago. There's a resident who moved in about maybe 3 years ago. He's younger than the regular, older residents, he's in his late 50's/early 60's. He had got in a surfing accident and now is confined to a motorized wheelchair. He really only moved to this place to keep an eye on his mother who's in the alzheimer unit. He's a nice guy, gets along with all the staff and likes to talk. He's taken to hanging around my desk during my shift. I always keep things on a professional level, like I do with all the residents. Well, over time I guess he's developed a bit of a crush. Little hints have been dropped, but I always play the oblivious card. It was last night it became clear how he felt. I always open the service elevator for him with my key after dinner. It's easier for him to get up to the alzheimer unit that way. Just as I was opening the elevator he says, "ya know, if I wasn't in this chair and if I was a little bit younger....." he let the rest of his words trail off and gave a playful smirk. I again played dumb on purpose, laughed it off and said good night. I thought afterward, 'oh, crap, how did this happen?'

Some would say Christine was naive not to realize what was going on around her. I think she really did know, but tried to keep some kind of control of the situation. Of course it still spun out of her control for her. It should be interesting what is said today when I go in to work. I plan on keeping things cool and not make a big deal out of it. I didn't do anything wrong, it's not my fault he developed a crush.

masquerading rose

03-20-2008, 08:17 PM

ChristineJ16

03-21-2008, 03:35 PM

That's freaky, Christine. I hope things get better for you. But I think you are doing the right thing.

I think Christine was a little naive, but I think you pointed a very good thing is that she did want control. She didn't want Erik to go and kill anyone, she didn't want Raoul to be hurt, she didn't want anyone to know, and she didn't want it to ruin her life. Good for her to try and keep things under control, and good for you, too.

Well, yesterday was a little bit better. I made myself look really busy when he came by my desk. I also hardly made eye contact. I made sure I still stayed friendly, didn't want it to look so obvious. I even avoided sending him up on the elevator like usual. I was actually so busy with the phones he had someone else send him up instead. Ah, but today is a new day and I'm doing activities. I have more free reign of the whole building than I do when I'm at my regular position as receptionist. Usually he doesn't go to any of the activities, but because I'm doing them today he'll most likely come and look in, ugh! What I'm finding a bit creepy now is the way he's checking me out more so than before. It's to the point where I won't wear my favorite form-fitting pants with my uniform blouse anymore. He had mentioned he likes the black velvet ones especially. So I purposely have not worn them since he said something. I have taken to wearing ones that are slightly baggier, just to avoid any comments he might make. Of course tho I'll hear, "those aren't my favorite pants are they?" I just shrug off his comment and continue doing my job. I dunno, maybe the less distant I become he'll start to realize. It sucks tho cuz it's just in my nature to be friendly towards everyone. *sighs*

sweet_intoxication

03-23-2008, 11:08 PM

Christine...That's really stalkerish...I hope it gets better. :S You should tell him straight up in a direct tone, but gently.

And I like the character Christine, in the book, which I'm currently reading. She is extremely naiive in the book and in the movie, it's also reflected. There wasn't really much of a seductive side of her in the stage production, more so in the movie. And yes, I do agree Christine matured suddenly towards the end of the movie. In the scene of I remember...she was all jumpy and skippy/curious like a child when she tried to unveil The Phantom's mask and then she kissed The Phantom towards the end, which was a nice thing to do. haha

ChristineJ16

03-24-2008, 04:48 PM

Christine...That's really stalkerish...I hope it gets better. :S You should tell him straight up in a direct tone, but gently.

My co-worker called me yesterday and said he asked her about me. Asked how I was doing, ugh! :rolleyes: Well, when I go in today I will continue to be distant and just treat things on a professional level.

The Countess

04-17-2008, 11:02 PM

Good luck, Christine. Just in case though, don't go near any mirrors. :)

Back to Christine, she's definitly not the sharpest tool in the shed, but she's young which people sometimes forget. Look naive up in the dictionary and you'll see her picutre. ;)

tiannangel

04-22-2008, 01:32 AM

Yes, but I think the original book meant her as a 23-24 year old woman, not an 18 year old girl. Her shyness and how she's naive might just be the fact that now people cast her younger.

Madame le Courayer

04-23-2008, 08:04 PM

ChristineJ16

04-23-2008, 08:54 PM

Christine reading your post made me shiver in deja vu. I also worked in what's called a transitional care unit for a couple of years and the exact same thing happened to me. It's remarkable but not unusual for patients to develop crushes or obsessions for their caregivers.
The man in question was relativly young, ( maybe early fifties?) he had had to have his leg amputated due to complications following an accident. He like to have me sit by his bed and read to him, sing to him and talk with him. He was also somewhat depressed. The situation became a little creepy when I saw a picture of his wife who had passed away several years earlier. She looked a lot like an older version of me :eek:
Anyway, like Christine, I had not had a lot of experience with the opposite sex being home schooled and only 18 so I had a hard time handling the situation. I remember the day he was discharged he gave me a gold heart-shaped locket on a chain. I still have it.
It wasn't really a stalker situation but it did unnerve me.

Things have gotten somewhat better with the situation, but I still find it annoying he talks about me to my other co-workers. I've been keeping up my usual distance and keeping things on a professional level. Yesterday I didn't even talk to him and he barely came by the desk. I know he's picking up on my distance, but then he'll go talk to my co-workers about it. I told my one co-worker she really needs to start ignoring him as well. When he starts talking about me change the subject. For awhile I was letting him stress me out. I have been dealing with some fun health issues since the beginning of this year. It's nothing too serious, I got things under control, but the stress from going into work was making things worse. I actually started experiencing anxiety attacks, something I've never had before. I was mad at myself for letting him do this to me. Once I really talked it out with a close co-worker of mine it helped a lot. I just go in now not thinking of what he'll say or do. I'm there to do my job, that's all. Meditating helped too, lol!

At least it's not really too stalker-ish, he hasn't tried to touch me or anything like that. It still is slightly unnerving it turned out this way. All I can do is keep doing what am I doing, which so far is working. The only way I'd have to report him is if he starts changing, getting pushy, etc. Let's hope that doesn't happen, I don't need that kind of stress in my life. *hugs to you* about dealing with the same kind of situation. I'm sorry you went thru the same kind of thing.

The Countess

04-23-2008, 10:01 PM

Yes, but I think the original book meant her as a 23-24 year old woman, not an 18 year old girl. Her shyness and how she's naive might just be the fact that now people cast her younger.

Maybe, but in the book I think she had just turned 19. I believe that she was so naive only because women were very sheltered back then. She's also supposed to be this haunted, traumatized girl. If she had figured eveything out, what fun would that be?

Madame le Courayer

04-23-2008, 11:33 PM

Let's face it...at 18 and 19 years old we never have it figured out! And when things happen, like the loss of a parent or an emotional distance from a parent (as in my case) it's easy to become entrapped in an unhealthy relationship with an older man. I know this was why I tolerated and even became fond of my patient in a way.
If it had become something more dangerous I honestly don't know how I would have handled it. To this day I am still attracted to older, dangerous men. Once you've sort of tasted the exhilaration of that kind of devotion/obsession sometimes it's hard to break the habit. But like I said, except for the wife-look-alike thing I really wasn't that bothered by him...I know our situations are/were different Christine. Yours sound like it might be a bit more worrisome. I hope all works out with little stress to you. Learn some breathing exercises along with the meditation....those help me deal with stress. :)

IamErik771

04-24-2008, 10:45 AM

Actually, in Gaston Leroux's novel, Christine was 21. For one thing, an opera company wouldn't allow an 18 or 19-year-old to sing the leading part, especially back then. But, as noted by other posters to this thread, the extremely superstitious nature she had inherited from her father made her all the more vulnerable to Erik's tactics.

Hope all works out for you, Christine... that is unnerving, indeed, but I'm glad it seems to be starting to get better.

ChristineJ16

04-24-2008, 05:32 PM

Hope all works out for you, Christine... that is unnerving, indeed, but I'm glad it seems to be starting to get better.

Thanks! Yeah, as far as when I come in to work I pretty much have that part under control. I keep up my distance and busy-type attitude. He's been steering clear of the desk this week. I told my co-worker last night tho to be ready for him to come up to her and ask why I've been acting this way. She had told me the other day how he pretty much is jealous of my guyfriend. He would prefer I have no guy in my life. He knows my guy is a lot older than me so he asks my co-worker what I think of other older guys. He'll bringing up his age and then my age in the same sentence, ugh! I told her she really needs to try and ignore him as well. He needs to realize we are all there to work, not to entertain him. :mad:

As for the topic, it bugged me how the 2004 movie made Christine about 16 or 17, when really the character is about 21. It just made it even more creepy how the Phantom, who is a lot older, is stalking a young girl who is under 18. And I agree, all the fairy tales her father told made her even more vulnerable. She was very sheltered and not prepared for all that happened to her. The poor girl.

tiannangel

04-25-2008, 02:13 PM

Actually, Christine in the movie I think was supposed to be 19-ish, but he casted a younger Emmy just to bring out the innocence more, I guess.
The character wasn't supposed to be that young though.

angelgirl

09-27-2008, 04:36 PM

I think one of the reasons Christine was so naive is because she was sheltered and told all those "Angel of Music" and "Little Lotte" stories.
I can identify with that. I have been very sheltered because of being an only child and my mom never being able to have any other kids. Because of that, I am extremely naive in the ways of the world.

Also, Christine had a lot of pressure put on her at the end because she was forced to choose between two men, but I liked that fact that in the movie, she grows up and becomes mature at the end, where I didn't really see that as much in the stage play.:cd1:
A.G.

littlelotty004

09-30-2008, 06:09 AM

I think one of the reasons Christine was so naive is because she was sheltered and told all those "Angel of Music" and "Little Lotte" stories.

I agree with that. I am the youngest of four sisters and Ive got to say that my dad is WAY over protective. and at some times its a good thing
other times its embarrassing.
sorry that was a little off topic...:goofy:

she was torn between two men, two different worlds, career(phantom) and love (Raoul)

Chocochip2000

12-06-2008, 07:48 PM

I personally didn't like how she was so helpless. She should have been a little more headstrong and independant.

But back then, that's what women were supposed to be; Helpless. But I don't think she should have been so much to the point where it was obnoxious. She should have been braver.

tiannangel

01-05-2009, 02:49 AM

Girl's weren't supposed to be really 'helpless', just meek and the type which should "be seen, and not heard".

Depends on which version you read however. I found Kay Christine sightly wince-making to read when she first intro-ed her, but she ended up being a slightly stronger character at the end.

Leroux Christine I think is the 'strongest' of the top threeversions. Maybe that's just me though.
ALW Christine...Well, she did stand up for Raoul in the Lair, but that's mostly in the musical. 2004 Movie Christine just kinda stood and watched her fiance get strangled.

Hidden Away

01-23-2009, 08:58 PM

I don't understand why the role of Christine Daae has been stereotyped as a bit too innocent. Yes I know I have seen her in such a way in the past, but please do notice that my maturity wasn't so great then--and even now...well you know :)

Anyways, I think that she's pretty strong for someone that has lost her father, maintained the affection for and of two men, was able to break the heart of one of the man that she cared for (perhaps--at least in my thoughts), and managed to live in the Opera House since seven. I don't know about you, but that's killer hard for me. I would go insane after my father died. I guess it takes a bit more time for opinions to go away when analysis can finally be made.

So imagine (slightly off topic), that your a performer in Phantom, imagine how short those hours are when you could go on and on about your character's wants, desires, objectives and all that other stuff that they talk about in acting. I would find it hard to stuff all of that into...what an hour? and something minutes...

Anyways I'll just say that Daae has guts for living through all of that. *friend says: I would have run away and joined the circus and then I would have moved to Gaul...* Ummm Allie, that is France.... *Oh silly Patricia!*

The Countess

03-29-2009, 05:52 PM

Being_Julia

03-29-2009, 11:16 PM

I do like the character of Christine however she sometimes annoys me becuase she seems too innocent and naive.
However i do like her becuase of her kindness towards Erik....

Hidden Away

05-17-2009, 01:41 AM

In all honesty, I don't think that she was that strong. If you ask me she was pretty needy and desprite for love and companionship that she had with her father.

I wouldn't say that she even maintained the affection of her two suitors all that well either. If she had, her plan to resolve her problems wouldn't have just been to run away with Raoul.

That is true, but it was good that she didn't break down every five second because of that. And the balance of Erik and Raoul, I was talking about her balancing all of that before Phantom really happened. she knew that Erik had existed and she adored him and he had adored her from afar...if that makes sense. That's what I see before Phantom ever happened. :\ I know confusing *Patricia's stupid cough* mea culpa :\

The Countess

06-27-2009, 10:47 AM

Hidden Away

07-07-2009, 07:25 PM

Ehhhhhh, well I think that attempting to commit suicide was a pretty big break-down. I mean ya see didn't try to do that every 5 seconds but it also shows that she most certainly wasn't in control of her feelings and herself.

Well it honestly depends on which verison's we're talk about here. I'm probably thinking about the musical/movie. You know ;)
it's all in the version we're talking about.
Each writer and director works with Christine the most of you can see it. Well that's what I see. Each Christine is directed by the author/director and the actor. With the other characters they some what have a settled idea. Meg is a dancer who is seen with her mother close by, Erik is a musically distorted man, Raoul the dashing young man.
You know Christine can sometimes go anyway. You just have to keep a few set bases the same (her mourning her father, her pervious life before and during the Operahouse years). The actor can experiment with the character, but then has to have a set in stone character before rehearsal of course :)

I'm not sure if I wanted to play someone in the show I would pick Meg, Mme. Giry, or Christine.

The Countess

07-14-2009, 12:48 AM

True, I guess it does depend on who the director wants Christine to be (along with the actress' own interitation of the director's directions) but I'm talking about the basic character from Leroux.

I think Christine would actually be a hard role to play. I mean, you have to be a dreamer without apearing mentally challenged and not to mention you have to see Phantoms...

Hidden Away

07-16-2009, 03:09 PM

This is where I say kudos to all of you Christine's out there. I mean some of them had the vibe that they were insane, but they didn't really let that over take there character. When playing a character you have to keep in mind that they have to seem in favor of the actor. So you have to believe your sane even when the character mental unstable. It's the same principals of siding with your character.

The Countess

07-16-2009, 11:09 PM

I love how there can be so many interitations to the role. She can either have feelings for Erik or completly despise him. It's quite fun to watch the differences in them. Surprisingly, Christine is actually a very complex character, in my opinion. I mean, not only is she struggling with a love triangle, but also with the recent death of her beloved father, her lost childhood, and the pressures of her instant stardom.

Hidden Away

07-17-2009, 04:12 PM

I love how in the musical Sarah's Christine really started to freak out during Notes II after the Masquerade. It was priceless to listen to the fight on the soundtrack.

But which version are you talking about when you refer to her father's death as recent?

You know I think it's really funny how most of the people at my school hate her when she completely breaks down, but they don't realize how they break down during a rehearsal because of their lead role. I guess they don't see how she has more to cope with other than stardom. Some people just don't really consider where the character came from before they judge them.

The Countess

07-17-2009, 06:14 PM

I also like the "catfight" scene in Notes II. "How dare you!" It shows that maybe Christine has a bit more back-bone and gives people an idea of what kind of character she is.

In the book, Christine's father dies only before she goes to the opera house. It's hinted in the musical that her father died only 3 years before the story from alternate lyrics in the Claire Moore version of WYWSHA.

I think that it's pretty sad that we do go into this much depth with these characters. Yay for obsessions and having no lives!

Hidden Away

07-17-2009, 06:22 PM

What are you talking about, I do so have a life!!!! I go to a musical theater school were we talk about anything musical theater..ha!

I wonder if any Carlottas and Christines were friends before the show and eventually did the catfight scene. I would love to see them go at it!
In Midsummer Night's Dream there were the bestest of friends that played Hermia and Helena, they did great when they fought.

ANYWHOO!!!

I agree with what you said about going in depth of character, but then again I don't. Sometimes I think it's good to just go with what you see, because it's all instinct in musical theater, but then again we wouldn't see Christine's backbone, her struggle between love and stardom, between good and evil, between up and down--literally.

Eriks_heart

09-17-2009, 08:03 PM

Some have said that she should have been braver, or that she shouldn't have been so......naive. But that's how she is. Innocently naive to a fault (for some). But that's the way a lot of women were back then.

During the scene of which her and Erik were at the mirror:
Christine was enthralled, or for others hypnotized, spellbound, what ever you may want to call it. Think of it this way for example: You like a certain singer, or guitar player, drummer....what ever and whoever it may be, and they are your absolute favorite, and they were singing to you.....some of your reactions may be a bit different, but, you would get glassy-eyed and your mouth would be slightly open. You are enthralled by that person. Some of it because you can't believe that they are singing to you and only you. And because you had already found something about them captivating. Some might have a different reaction, but that is the general reaction.

The sword fight scene in the graveyard:
Raoul and Erik are going at it, and in between them trying to off one another, you see Christine panting heavily. To some, she should have interfered, to others, once again, she is weak, pathetic, and helpless. But that's how a majority of women were in those times. But she was a bit captivated once again by the enigmatic Erik, but also was torn between defending Erik, her Angel of Music, and defending her childhood sweetheart/friend, Raoul (no matter how femmy he is). No matter how much she yelled and screamed they wouldn't have listened. Fights like that in those times weren't so romantic, even if it was a special case like this one. Even though the idea of it is. And I'm sure Christine being as pure as she was (heavy emphasis on the word pure) wouldn't want the knowledge that someone was killed because of her. Its why she stopped Raoul when she did. That and she knew that she could finally get their attention....even if it was mostly subconscious knowledge.

operaghost94

09-23-2009, 01:49 PM

I'm easily swayed by music. It's just how I am. So, I can't blame her for becoming hypnotized.

And as for her being braver?! She was incredibly brave! Well I guess if you're talking about brave brave, as in facing danger (she did that too), but she DID have courage. Especially at the end. Having courage doesn't always mean facing danger. It means standing up for those you love. REALLY love. And for doing something you know is right, even though it may hurt someone you care about.

Okay, so those are what I like about her. Now, for my negative opinion.

Seriously, I don't know how she could fall for Raoul. I KNOW it's part of the story and all. But, seriously. Raoul? I guess he WAS one of the best choices, but still. I wouldn't have chosen him. Or Erik for that matter. Just read in the PHANTOM section of these forums, to see into more detail. :P

Hidden Away

09-24-2009, 12:30 AM

Hypnotized...not exactly the state music makes me go into...I'm just easily persuaded by music.
Back to being brave, yes! She witnessed the almost death of her soon to be husband, she decided to step out of society's comfort zone and say, "Hey, I can show compassion towards someone that is socially outcasted and I don't really care what you all think."

I love how your posts for each of the characters lead to the next character. :)

The Countess

09-24-2009, 01:26 AM

I wouldn't go as far as saying that she was "brave" considering that she swooned and tried to kill herself, but also taking note of what she was going through, she could have acted a lot worse.

Christine was definitly naive, but I don't consider that a fault. She was taught to be so. She was never raised to be an adult. When her father died, she was completly lost and became even more helpless. Besides, women weren't what they are today. They weren't considered man's equals so a girl with a backbone or out spoken mind would have been terribly improper. Then again, being a performer was looked down upon in the first place, so I doubt that it would have really hurt her reputation further.

Hidden Away

09-24-2009, 01:33 AM

True that we consider her naive mind, but that was the nature of most women then. Suicide was considered in how many versions? I'm really trying to see how much , just out of curiosity.

It's hard to gauge how different it was since it was then and this is now, two completely different things.

Eriks_heart

09-24-2009, 05:37 AM

I personally don't think that her naivety is a fault really....but a lot of people do...so thus I added the parenthesis. :)

And I do agree, she is a lot braver than most women of her time. Dancer/performer, and standing up for someone who was basically considered as a social outcast.

Thank you, I try to show the connections for better understanding. Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't.

The Countess

09-24-2009, 11:26 AM

To my knowledge, she only tried to kill herself in Leroux (not including Kay) but that's the most important version of all as far as characterization.

Hidden Away

09-25-2009, 12:55 AM

True, true (I fail at reading the Gaston Leroux version to the point I really understand) I'm more of a Kay person when it comes to books. I think that Rachel has a point when she says that Christine was brave. If she was even going to mentally accept Erik or socialize with him in the least bit, that would be frowned upon. Society varies soo much with these story and it hard to understand how remarkable some of these things are. What seem to be typical today, could be extraordinary then.

Eriks_heart

09-25-2009, 10:18 PM

It was only once that was documented that she attempted to take her life. But in my opinion, it was an attempt to try and wake up out of what was perceived to be a nightmare. But at least Erik did stop her from further injuring herself, even if it was only for his own interest. Saving a life is saving a life, even if it is used for ones own gain.

Esgaroth

09-30-2009, 02:05 PM

Christine seemed naive, not stupid. She grew up a lot during the movie, and after the Wishing You Were Somehow Here Again scene, she didn't need her Angel as much as she did before. She let her father go. I think that is one of the things that scared her before PONR, and what allowed her to let herself go in Erik's arms during PONR. Before that, he had still been her angel and untouchable. Once she said goodbye to her father, he became a man in her eyes. That also shed her of some of innocence. What she felt was not child's play.

Christine was truly a good person who got confused between her childhood sweetheart and the man who had rescued her from a lonely youth. Somewhere between the graveyard scene and PONR, she let go of the childlike purity and stepped into womanhood, only to have the choice that could ruin her life thrown at her before she could fully accept that.

I really really like your thoughts on this - my first reaction was of course through the film version - I was blown away by Emmy's voice and think her absolutely lovely, but now that Ive had a glimpse of Sarah Brightman's interp and read the novel (most of it anyway), I am less inclined to like Emmy's ( read: Schumacher's) interpretation of Christine. I dont think it helps the tug of war that Christine is subjected to when the character just becomes flotsam between the two men.

Excellent excellent observation.

Hidden Away

09-30-2009, 09:51 PM

I always forget how I enjoy Sarah's performance. That is probably one of the works that I love the best from her...it was her best. I was listening to down once more and I just realized how well the trio did the piece. That is a hard scene to work out. An overload of emotions had spilled out onto the table and there's just so many pieces and parts to fumble through that it's almost confusing.

Luciana: "Christine was truly a good person who got confused between her childhood sweetheart and the man who had rescued her from a lonely youth. Somewhere between the graveyard scene and PONR, she let go of the childlike purity and stepped into womanhood, only to have the choice that could ruin her life thrown at her before she could fully accept that."

I love your thoughts about this. It's one of those moments were I complete agree with you, and I had that thought in mind before, but I just didn't think about saying it so like that. Just like Esgaroth said, "Excellent Excellent observation."

MAHibbard

10-01-2009, 12:41 AM

My favorite Christine is Leroux's Christine. She appears a simple "damsel in distress" but is much more complex once you start delving into her character. I will confine my thoughts to the book for now. Later, when I've had time to think things over, I might decide to tackle the '04 Christine (who I admit I do not have as much admiration for).

Christine Daaé is portrayed by Leroux as a young woman who, when we read her story, appears to live in a dream world. When I started reading (yet again, the Leonard Wolf translation) the chapter that reveals her background (Chapter 6, The Enchanted Violin), I was struck by just how unusual an upbringing she had. Until recently, I hadn't really paid a great deal of attention to many of these details. Now, however, they jump out at me. Was Leroux trying to tell us something? Is it simply a matter of subtle (and not so subtle) shifts in meanings when translating from one language to another? Am I simply reading more into the matter that was intended? At the very least, these interpretations make for an interesting discussion.

Here is a summary of what Leroux has to say about all of this, with some comments by me. These early childhood years, as we all know, are critical in the formation of a person's character. They don't call them formative years for nothing.

Christine Daaé was born in a small village near Upsala, Sweden, apparently an only child. No other siblings are ever mentioned. She did not come from any special background. Her parents were of that class that is often referred to as "the salt of the earth" – the peasant folk who work and toil and make enough to live in reasonable comfort, though hardly in the lap of luxury. Music filled their lives from the start. Perhaps it was the only truly pleasurable part of what had to have been a hard life.

Her father was a farmer who also played the fiddle. He had quite a reputation in the region and was often invited to play at special events.

"He tilled the soil during the week and sang in the choir on Sundays. This peasant had a little daughter to whom (even before she could read) he had taught the musical alphabet. It may be that the elder Daaé was, without himself being aware of it, a great musician. He played the violin and was considered the best wedding fiddler in all of Scandinavia. His reputation spread widely through the district, and he was always called upon to lay at weddings and banquets." (Wolf, 81)

Her mother was an invalid, though the cause of her disability is not known. In any case, she was quickly out of the picture, dying when Christine was only 6 years old.

Upon the death of his wife, Daddy Daaé must have decided it was time for a change. He sold the farm and, with his daughter in tow, headed to Upsala, no doubt in search of fame and fortune. Leroux does not tell us what he hoped to do in Upsala, but I'm guessing he had hoped to become a concert violinist of some sort. But whatever plans he had, they failed. As Leroux writes, "What he found was poverty." (Wolf, 82)

What surprises me is that, even though he has a daughter to care for, and having had no luck in Upsala, Daddy D does not attempt to engage in gainful employment. He could have returned to his village and to farming, which would at least have put food on the table for him and his daughter, but maybe he doesn't like the idea of being a peasant the rest of his life. Instead, he chose the life of an itinerant fiddler. This is where I begin to wonder about his mental well-being, and what kind of life he forced upon his daughter.

"Back he went, then, to the countryside, going from fair to fair, strumming his Scandinavian melodies, while his child, who never left him, listened ecstatically, or accompanied him with her songs." (Wolf, 82)

Little Christine made quite an impression upon people. They, "…marveled at her beauty, her grace, and her eagerness to speak and to behave well." (Wolf, 82) She is apparently a natural performer, perhaps an early Swedish version of Shirley Temple. In any case, she sounds almost too good to be true, but it is this part – "her eagerness to speak and to behave well" – that comes across as a possible clue to something darker going on. All right, maybe it's just the translator, but I have to depend upon someone!!

While performing at the Limby fair, Christine and her father are discovered by Professor Valérius, who brings to two of them to live with him and his wife in Gothenburg. This has got to be a big improvement in their lives – a stable home, regular meals, and a chance for Christine to receive a proper education. Christine is well received by the professor's wife, who treats her as a daughter. Apparently, the professor and Mme Valérius had no children of their own. The four of them move to Paris, perhaps to further Christine's education or they may have done so out of financial or academic opportunities for Prof. Valérius, who now had three people depending on him financially.

"When Professor and his wife had to move to France, they took the Daaés with them." (Wolf, 82) There is no mention of why they "had" to move. This could simply be a translation issue, but it might also be an allusion to their having to move due to persecution and/or political unrest. There was a lot of that going on throughout Europe of the mid-19th century, with riots and revolutions spreading across the continent like wildfire.

I also found it interesting that Leroux writes, "…they took the Daaés with them." Perhaps the Professor and his wife were uncomfortable about leaving the two of them to their own devices. Maybe Mme Valérius, who had taken over the responsibilities of being a mother to young Christine, did not wish to be parted from her surrogate daughter, or she may have had concerns that her father could, without meaning to, neglect her.

Once in Paris, Daddy Daaé got homesick, and "…he began to wither away. In Paris, he never went out. He lived in a sort of dream that he maintained by means of his violin. He shut himself into his room with his daughter where they could be heard for hours on end playing the violin and singing very softly, very softly." (Wolf, 82)

At this point, it is beginning to sound to me like he does not want his daughter to grow up; he sounds like a man who is clinging to a dream world that does not exist, and forcing his daughter to live in it, too. I also worry about a man (even a father) who shuts himself away with a young girl for hours on end. Maybe I've simply seen and read too many stories about sexual predators. Maybe I'm reading more into this than Leroux intended, but it does sound very strange to me.

Daddy Daaé did not recover his strength until that following summer, when the family (meaning Prof. & Mme Valérius, Papa Daaé and Christine) went on a holiday to Perros-Guirec, where the seaside reminded Christine's father of his homeland. "He loved the sea there, saying that it had the same color as the one in his homeland; often, at the beach, he would play his most poignant melodies, saying that the sea grew calm to hear them." (Wolf, 82) Again, we have this daydreamer, or if you'd rather, a late-19th century hippy type!

While the four of them were in Perros, Papa Daaé pleaded with Mme. Valérius to "indulge a new whim of the fiddler's," namely, to take Christine with him so the two of them could wander the countryside. "During the season of the 'pardons' [Breton pilgrimages], festivals, and dances, he went, as formerly, with his violin, and he was allowed to take his daughter with him for eight days. No one tired of hearing them. Into the tiniest of villages, they poured out enough music to last for an entire year. Refusing beds in an inn, they slept at night in barns, where they lay beside each other on the straw as they had done in those days in Sweden when they were so poor." (Wolf, 82)

In addition, there's this: "Meanwhile, they were properly dressed." Almost makes me think that Leroux knew even then what this all sounded like, and wanted to reassure his readers that everything's okay!

Leroux continues, "They refused the money they were offered, nor would they take up a collection. People who followed them from village to village did not understand the conduct of the violinist who traveled their roads with a beautiful child who sang so well that one might have thought her to be an angel out of paradise." (Wolf, 82-83)

Honestly, I don't either. Sounds to me like Daddy D is trying to recapture something that he feels he has lost.

With this kind of upbringing, Christine couldn't have been a better, more likely candidate for the Phantom to be attracted to. Raised as she was on fantasy, she was someone who wouldn't run screaming if she heard a voice coming from no apparent source; rather, she'd be intrigued by it.

In any case, the least we can say is that Christine had an unusual upbringing.

A_Single_Rose

10-01-2009, 07:06 AM

That is an excellent analysis, MAHibbard. I must find the Wolf translation as I don't think my version is quite as detailed as the Wolf translation.

I have always been intrigued by the way Christine was raised and how it affected her. Many people call her stupid for having been trick by Erik, the "Angle of Music," but few take into account her upbringing, which you thoroughly fleshed out. As you said, as a child, she was surrounded by fanciful ideas and was almost disconnected with reality in that way. It's not her fault that she grew to be so naive, even at age 20.

Plus, the experience of the loss of both of her parents at such a young age would have definitely had negative effects on her psyche, which quite possibly might have set her back a ways.

MAHibbard

10-01-2009, 03:07 PM

After spending time delving into her upbringing, I found it quite reasonable that she would "fall" for the Phantom's fairy tale about being the Angel of Music. Later, when she spends two weeks as his "guest" in the house by the lake, I started thinking about how this, too, would have affected her thinking. I've heard it called Stockholm Syndrome, captor bonding, and such, but somewhere along the line, Christine -- even though she feared Erik -- also came to have a certain understanding for him, and in the end, became an almost Madonna-like figure.

Have you read Dr. Jerrold Hogle's The Undergrounds of the Phantom of the Opera? It's rather heavy going, but if you can stick with it, there's a lot of interesting food for thought brought out in the book.

Hogle writes: "Leroux's phantom finds a hitherto unknown happiness first on hearing Christine's singing voice and then in the tearful embrace in which she finally enfolds him. He clearly sees her as a mother-substitute, mainly because, as he adds in his account to the Persian, 'my poor, miserable mother never desired that I embrace her' the way Christine finally holds him close."

As for Christine? Her "basic attraction to the phantom...stems from the promise of her much beloved, but now dead, violinist father: that he will send that 'Angel of Music,' manifestly a surrogate for himself, to be her solace and mentor from Heaven after his own demise."

Yes, most of us agree that Christine has "daddy issues," and if that is the case, I find little to stand in the way of Erik having "mommy issues" as well.

Hogle concludes the section by writing: "Erik's oscillation between eros [a desire for sexual intimacy] and thanatos [death instinct, an unconscious urge to die] here extends to Christine and even to Raoul as they are all swept up in a quasi-incestuous necrophiliac [an irresistible sexual attraction to dead bodies] fantasy inspired by the conflicting drives symbolized most by the hidden phantom and his ghostly music."

commandermookie

10-02-2009, 10:14 AM

Christine, to me, showed lots of strength in all versions, particularly the book.

I don't think that Christine was naive. She had a hard decision to make, and, if you ask me, she was slightly young to make that choice. I think she handled everything rather well.

I think the reason people believe that Christine was naive or immature is because the whole Angel of Music ordeal. She was told that her father would send an Angel of Music to her; and she believed it. Does that make her naive? I think not. That's like someone telling you that a fat guy comes down your chimney and eats your cookies and drinks your milk- if you tell someone something at a young age, unless told differently, that someone is going to grow up believing that very thing. This is Christine's case.

So, besides the fact that she was believing in an Angel of Music that really didn't exist, Christine was sound at mind and pure at heart, me thinks.

operaghost94

10-05-2009, 08:11 AM

I think the reason people believe that Christine was naive or immature is because the whole Angel of Music ordeal. She was told that her father would send an Angel of Music to her; and she believed it. Does that make her naive? I think not. That's like someone telling you that a fat guy comes down your chimney and eats your cookies and drinks your milk- if you tell someone something at a young age, unless told differently, that someone is going to grow up believing that very thing. This is Christine's case.

Yes, I agree on that point. Or like the fairy that comes in after your asleep and exchanges money for a tooth! And yet, we don't say that little kids are naive because they might believe it. Why is that? If they're not told otherwise, why shouldn't they believe it? :P

I think people also think she was crazy because she didn't choose Erik. Seriously? Mookie, I like your post on the PHANTOM thread about this. He. Was. A. Murderer. Ok?

commandermookie

10-06-2009, 09:43 AM

Esgaroth

10-06-2009, 03:44 PM

Thanks, my dear Rach. I liked my post on the PHANTOM too.

I am really wondering when not liking an insane murderer is considered 'unthinkable' in today's society. I mean, a murderer is a murderer. If you like a murderer, what does that say for your character? Even though Raoul isn't my FAVORITE FAVORITE FAVORITE guy in the whole wide world, I think that Christine made the most logical choice by going with him.

Choice A: Live with creepy, insane stalker who at once claimed to be your father. Let's not forget that this creepy, insane stalker is also a murderer, and has been the cause of several accidents for years at your opera house. Oh, and you'd be living underground. By a lake.

Choice B: Live with gentle, emotional Count who's rich and would die for you. You'd probably be very well off in life, be given the title of Countess, and will most likely never have to lift a finger again. Let's not forget that this young Count isn't deformed, doesn't stalk people, he hasn't killed anyone (that we know of) and you've known him longer.

And seriously. Some people criticize Christine for choosing Choice B?

I dont think Erik was asking her to stay in the cave with her at all...ever, in any of the book or stage play or movie. I think he made it clear that he saw Christine as his one hope of GETTING OUT OF THERE himself...she would humanize him and be proof to the rest of the world that he was NOT a monster. She would indeed be his mask, especially when people make first impressions by how one looks. He was very astute and sensitive to that thinking.

I dont argue with your point that its rather appalling that people are rooting for a murderer - as I mentioned in my last post, I can think of a movie in a fandom *I* am familiar with where all the women are just GA-GA over the character, but he is NOT one of MY favorite characters at all because I can see the character for what he is: a cold blooded murderer...and yet those fangurls write their fic with the express purpose of 'changing' him. UGH. I dont know where that particular actor went to get that look in his eye, but its the same look one would see in any FBI's Most Wanted criminal. But he has taken over the popularity of some of the actor's earlier characters precisely because this character is what these earlier characters are NOT. Its very weird and a bit distressing to witness, I assure you.

But I digress...

Logically, Christine made the RIGHT choice, the SANE choice..but its undeniable there was a tremendous connection between herself and Erik and its through that connection there is a chance for something twisted to be made straight again...and that touches on a passion and desire that goes much deeper than just wanting to be safe. Its EASY to be safe. With the book Erik its a bit harder to see how Christine COULD change him, even if she did stay with him as he wished. Would he stop murdering? Something about the Leroux!Erik makes me wonder....but Gerik et al changed the background and emphasis to a degree that you really do wonder if there wasn't a point somewhere that Christine had the opportunity to really make a difference. I think the tragedy for me where Christine is concerned is that she was very young and inexperienced and too taken with her own dreams to understand the gravity of the Phantom reaching out to her.

This is a complex story that makes one think. Forces those who think about it consider 'would I or wouldnt I?'

MAHibbard

10-06-2009, 06:00 PM

The whole idea of Erik wanting Christine to remain underground is with him is...wrong (unless we're talking morbidity fics, in which case, the idea's kinda fun!) But seriously, if you go back to the book, Erik says very plainly that he longs for a house with a wife he can take to the park and do all the ordinary things a married couple do. (Sorry, I don't have my book handy, but any of you who have read it will no doubt recognize the passage I'm referring to.)

As for ALW's show? Although it's not directly stated, I think that Esgaroth has it right when she says that the Phantom saw Christine as his hope of becoming "ordinary" (in the best sense of that word) and starting a new life--presumably one that is above ground.

commandermookie

10-07-2009, 07:12 AM

I dont think Erik was asking her to stay in the cave at all.

Maybe not. Whether it be in cave, grutto, or a mansion on the beach, I would think living with Erik unwillingly would be torture. The surroundings one is in doesn't change why she's there, or how she got there.

I think the tragedy for me where Christine is concerned is that she was very young and inexperienced and too taken with her own dreams to understand the gravity of the Phantom reaching out to her.

I disagree, politely, of course. Although Christine was indeed young in *our* terms, in the book she was a mature adult. (21?) Emmy Rossum's portrayal of Christine has made people to believe that Christine Daa'e was a immature 16 year old girl. She was indeed older, and more mature. Every girl has her dreams; Christine was the victim of dreams as well. Of course, just because she didn't want to live with a maniac, and chose ever-so-logical Raoul, doesn't mean she let her dreams get in the way with real life. She couldn't have it both ways, and she chose the one that seemed best for her.

Hidden Away

10-10-2009, 01:32 PM

Logic is logic, sane is sane, crazy artistic is just something you want to avoid when it comes to life. Artistic? Fine...crazy, don't do it! Christine was entitled to her choice, sure Phantom if very intriguing, but ask yourself could he support her needs if staying underground made her grow insane? It would make me go insane having to see darkness forever. I mean, visiting I guess would be fun, but going there staying there until you die. Ech! I mean, if I was feeling overly generous towards Erik then yea, but it's night and I'm tired and I'm thinking logically. Christine had the choice, and I think she made a good one too. I'm not suggesting that she should feel guilty because she left Erik, obviously, but we have to keep in mind that she's not a doll that we can make her do anything, she has a mind of her own.

The Countess

12-31-2009, 07:45 PM

...in the book she was a mature adult. (21?)

I wouldn't call attempted suicide a "mature" decision to make. I wouldn't call her innocent or as demure as other Christines either, but Leroux!Christine was far from mature. She most certainly was confussed and hysterical at some parts of the story, but even when she wasn't in a dire situation, she was the sterotypical heroine of the era. In my opinion, ALW!Christines (depending on the actress) are the most fleshed out and stronger of any that I've come across. They're certainly more mature in my opinion than Leroux!Christine.

commandermookie

01-01-2010, 04:58 AM

I wouldn't call attempted suicide a "mature" decision to make.

Everyone makes immature decisions at times. I once chose to ride my cousin's dirt bike, knowing that I wasn't going to be any good at it. I don't think that automatically makes me immature, though, even if it was an immature decision.

I wouldn't call her innocent or as demure as other Christines either, but Leroux!Christine was far from mature.

This is just difference of opinions. For me, had Christine chosen Erik, I would have thought she was immature. I think she's mature; partly because she chose Raoul.

She most certainly was confussed and hysterical at some parts of the story, but even when she wasn't in a dire situation, she was the sterotypical heroine of the era. In my opinion, ALW!Christines (depending on the actress) are the most fleshed out and stronger of any that I've come across. They're certainly more mature in my opinion than Leroux!Christine.

Confused? Yes. Hysterical? Maybe. True, ALW!Christine is usually a little more stronger than other Christines, but that doesn't make Leroux!Christine immature. Like I said before, it's just a matter of opinions.

P.S I feel like I know you from somewhere...you wouldn't happen to be a member of POTO.com, would you?

Soprano Rose

01-01-2010, 04:58 PM

Well, crap. I had three, in-depth paragraphs written, but I lost it all. Typical me! So, I'll make this short, and add more later:

I mostly agree with Viktoria, though I was going to add more to what she said. I certainly don't consider suicide a very mature or wise decision, but I think overall Christine was kind of the more adult character in the story (not that that's saying much!). More on that later, when I'm not in a bad mood.

I agree ALW!Christine is usually the strongest and most mature, but that definitely depends on who's playing her. I've seen/heard actresses who tend to play the damsel in distress (I won't name names) and some who give her a lot more passion and backbone (Rachel Barrell, Rebecca Caine). Those are the Christine's that stand out the most to me, personally. Though, as commandermookie said, it's all a matter of opinion.

The Countess

01-01-2010, 08:49 PM

But the question is, did she really choose Raoul? We all know that she loved him dearly and wanted to be with him, but did she make the decision to be with him. No. She's not the one who stood up against Erik and said "no". Erik chose for her in the end by letting them go. In a way, I think that she was just running away from Erik and her problems by leaving him in the lair (when she returns the ring that is) instead of using comfort or sorting out the issues that have yet to be laid to rest. True, she didn’t have much of a choice at the time and I think it was right of her to leave but doing so doesn’t justify her maturity. I’d say that she’s strong for doing so but mature…I’m not so sure if that characteristic is even really addressed in that circumstance. Then again, that’s more of ALW!Christine’s character who I’ve said before is very much different than Leroux!Christine in some cases. If Leroux!Christine was faced with the same issue, I believe that the outcome would be very different. She, not like ALW!Christine, never fully faced Erik. She begged him, she pleaded, she bargained, but she never really stood up against him like others.

Oh dear, I’ve drifted from maturity…*ahem* anyway, perhaps “immature” isn’t the correct word for Leroux!Christine, but I would hardly call her mature either. She never addressed the issues at hand and thought that the only way to stop everything was to run away, to hide, and to cower. I don’t blame her for wanting to leave Erik, but she did it so in a way it was detrimental to others (ergo: Erik). She never thought things through with her decisions and never wanted to face the consequences of them. The only instance of maturity that I see in her is towards the end when she lets Erik kiss her. In a way, I think it was her saying “Enough is enough. I need to except this.” The “final lair”, if you will, was a crucial turning point for the character but I can’t say that I can say for the greater half of the book.

And yes, I am apart of the phantomoftheopera.com community as TGITPC. I’m not as frequent as a poster over there, but I’ve spoken with a few people. Perhaps you're mistaking me with Viscountess?

commandermookie

01-02-2010, 06:39 AM

But the question is, did she really choose Raoul?

You have a good point; but I think that she chose Raoul. Chose him. To me, it looked like she had chose Raoul, but then Erik pulled the whole "stay with me, he lives; leave me, he dies" stunt, and thus Christine chooses to stay with him in order to keep Raoul alive. Erik let her go; she went with Raoul. That's how things went.

Oh dear, I’ve drifted from maturity…*ahem* anyway, perhaps “immature” isn’t the correct word for Leroux!Christine, but I would hardly call her mature either. She never addressed the issues at hand and thought that the only way to stop everything was to run away, to hide, and to cower. I don’t blame her for wanting to leave Erik, but she did it so in a way it was detrimental to others (ergo: Erik). She never thought things through with her decisions and never wanted to face the consequences of them. The only instance of maturity that I see in her is towards the end when she lets Erik kiss her. In a way, I think it was her saying “Enough is enough. I need to except this.” The “final lair”, if you will, was a crucial turning point for the character but I can’t say that I can say for the greater half of the book.

Well, is anyone truly mature? Obviously Erik isn't. Raoul's maturity can be questioned, I suppose. You say Christine never thought things through; well, it appeared as though she didn't have that much time to think. The Final Lair scene is indeed a big turning point for her character, I can agree with you on that.

And yes, I am apart of the phantomoftheopera.com community as TGITPC. I’m not as frequent as a poster over there, but I’ve spoken with a few people. Perhaps you're mistaking me with Viscountess?

Nope; I recognize you as TGITPC. It's true; you don't post much (what a shame!) but I just saw your banner on here and thought of the TGITPC I've seen post once or twice on the forum. (I'm signed up as Disconnected Drone). Haha, no, I don't think you can mistake anyone for Viscountess; she has her own personality that's easy to identify! :goofy:

The Countess

01-02-2010, 01:02 PM

Well, is anyone truly mature?

Can anybody be truly mature in a situation like that? I know I couldn't. And yes, both Raoul and Erik were very lacking of maturity. Erik more than Raoul due to the fact that Raoul at least tried to fix everything.

And yes, Viscountess certainly has a personality on her but it wouldn't be the first time someone mixed up "Countess" and "Viscountess" (she had the name first :spin2: )

Soprano Rose

01-02-2010, 04:29 PM

Well, back to what I was saying about Christine being the more "adult" character. I think when she realized her "angel" isn't who he said he was, she looses her innocence, in a way. All the childhood fantasies and dreams come crashing down. While Christine is at heart at woman, in her mind she is still very much a child. After she encounters Erik, she is forced to grow up, but she desperately wants to cling to happier times (her childhood). Enters Raoul, whom she knows, loves, and trusts, and she feels safe around.

As to the final lair scene when she leaves Erik (book/musical), my interpretation is that Christine wants to say goodbye once and for all to her past. I wouldn't say she was "running" from Erik, but she desperately wants some reality back. I'm certainly not denying Christine's love for Raoul, but I think that, in a way, she loves Erik, too, and doesn't mean to hurt him. When she gives the ring back I think her thoughts would be: "I appreciate all you've done for me, but I need some stability in my life! I don't know if all you're saying is true or not. Maybe you ARE coming around. Maybe you DO feel remorse. I do care for you, and would love to love you in the way you love me, but I don't know." I know you'll probably disagree with me, but it's just my opinion.

She knows she loves Raoul, and he loves her. I think she made the right decision for several reasons, but I think it would take a great deal of maturity to STAY with Erik. Even though he was "redeemed" in the end, or in the process of redemption, he was far from a normally functioning human being (boy, is that putting it lightly!). And Yes, Raoul and Erik were both severely lacking in maturity, but that's a different topic.

I'll admit, at first I got "The Countess" and "Viscountess" mixed up, but only for a little while.

KChan88

06-07-2010, 05:15 AM

I'm gonna bump this thread and add in my two cents on Christine. :spin2: Ever since I first heard the music from PoTO when I was 8, I always thought of it being Christine's story really. I feel incredibly sorry for Erik, because what happened in his life was AWFUL. But sometimes I don't think people stop and feel sorry for Christine. She lost her mother at such a young age, and then she lost her father, who she was majorly close to. Being orphaned is no easy thing, and it leaves scars forever, especially if you're young when it happens, as Christine was. Yes, in all the various versions Christine has surrogate families (Mama Valerius in Leroux, the Girys in ALW) but still, losing both parents is an incredibly difficult and painful thing to go through. So it really doesn't surprise me that she believed in the Angel of Music; she clinged to anything that would remind her of her father.

And I also think that people forget that Erik tricked Christine into believing that he was sent by her father, and then she finds out that isn't true. That he's just a sad, lonely man, whose actions are often extremely frightening. OUCH. I mean seriously, that's a bit of a big betrayal. All this considered, I think it makes sense for Christine's character to have fallen in love with and chosen Raoul (now I'm biased here, because I love Raoul, but I promise, this will make logical sense). Christine needed someone who would protect her, who would help free her from the sad, dark existence she'd been living in since her father died, someone who would love her and listen to her and dry her tears. And Raoul offered all that. As well as the two of them being childhood sweethearts, Raoul was known and loved by Gustav Daae, which probably meant a lot to Christine. Both were orphans (at least in Leroux) and both were romantic dreamers who loved stories. Christine needed to be saved, and I think people forget that.

This might all sound like a bunch of ramble, but I always felt so sad for Christine. She'd been through a lot in her life, and then she had to go through the entire fiasco at the opera, which could not have easily been forgotten, even years later. She was very young, and I always applauded her character for the bravery she showed in each of the versions, especially in the final lair of ALW. I mean, how would any of us reacted to all the things Christine has to go through?

Goodness, I've gone on. I hope this all made sense. :biglaugh:

Mrs Nadir Khan

06-21-2010, 04:20 PM

Katie, what you say about Christine makes perfect sense. I think a lot of the people who refuse to understand Christine's dilemna and perspective only do so out of immature jealousy. I mean, my god, I don't read Christine!centric phanphics anymore because of character bashing and misinterpretation. She is a very tragic heroine and that she is clever enough to save her fiance's life from a madman, collected enough to keep her head (for the most part, I mean, attempting suicide in Leroux's probably wasn't the BEST idea ever), and intelligent enough to outsmart a "genius" such as Erik during her engagement to Raoul shows a depth to her that many self-proclaimed "phans" forget or ignore when convenient.

xXphantomaddictedXx

01-15-2011, 09:20 PM

I'm going to refer to what I posted in the Raoul thread on this. As we all know, Christine comes off as naive and indecisive, but that's because she had so much weight on her shoulders.

Raoul (her childhood sweetheart) and Erik (her so-called Angel of Music) are both competing for her attentions. Due to this, Christine feels a lot of pressure to make the right choice. However -- and this is also true in real life -- sometimes the "right" choice isn't the one we should make. Christine made the safer choice because she felt pressured to do so by her boyfriend.

Unfortunately, her heart was not in it, and by the end of it all you can tell it's a decision she will regret for her entire life. Just some of my thoughts.

masquerading rose

01-15-2011, 11:18 PM

I don't think she was pressured by her boyfriend. I think, yes, they both loved her, and Raoul wanted what was best for her. Yes, it may come off as selfish because he's what was best for her. He provides safe stability which is something Erik couldn't possibly promise. He provided thrill and passion, but Christine, being the innocent, naive girl she was, wasn't mentally or emotionally capable of handling a man like Erik. So the "right" choice in this case is the one she should've made. She realized she wasn't capable of handling Erik, despite how much she loved him. She loved Raoul just as much, but in a vastly different way, and didn't lose too terribly much by going with him. She may have lost the thrill, but she retained her sanity and security. If she stayed with Erik, she would have lost her freedom.

eternal_rose21

03-27-2012, 02:12 PM

Innocent and sweet, an Angel of Music, Christine Daae represents all that is good in PO.

What do you think of Christine? Is she too innocent? Is she simply naive to the world around her?

This is the place to discuss Christine Daae.

First of all, I love Christine Daae to pieces! She is my favorite of all of the ladies of the Opera Populaire and the woman who I am now embracing as part of my lifestyle.

Is she too innocent? Of course not! She is exactly the type of innocence I still am and I can definitely relate to her.

Is she simply too naive to the world around her? NO! She is just anyone else in the world, but she is wickedly beautiful in ways no one knows!

There is a question I'd like to ask: Did she do the right thing by choosing Raoul over the Phantom??????