Christine/Raoul vs. Christine/Phantom

[Evaline Cuomo]

Did Christine make the right choice by going with or Raoul or should she have stayed with the Phantom?




(Persoanlly, I think that she should have stayed with the Phantom. :D)

[The Phantom]

In my opinion also I believe that Christine should have stayed with the Phantom, the light/dark aspects of the relationships sort of balanced each other out. I just couldnÂ’t see Raoul being together with Christine until her death, personally. I will say however that the Phantom had started going off the deep end and went crazy, which can be a turn off/on depending on the person. If he werenÂ’t so crazy Christine would have probably stayed. ;)

[Meg Giry]

Christine/Phantom - you're kidding, right? ;) I'm so against the idea it's not even funny. He's psychologically unstable, depriving Christine of a normal life and her career, and Christine doesn't even like him much at the end of the stage show/film because of his behaviour. I don't see romance in that at all, it'd be a very unhealthy, one-sided relationship.

[Ubaldo Piangi]

Really, though, I couldn't picture Christine with such a pathetic fop as Raoul. The swordfight in the movie, for example, is just a very faulty attempt to beef up his image as a hero. However, even that doesn't help, since Raoul has always been the type of hero you could compare to Dudley Do-Right: upright, relatively handsome, but not an overly courageous or daring character.

[Meg Giry]

Hmm, the view of Raoul as a pathetic fop is something I would personally disagree with. I think it depends on the presentation of the character, which further depends on the actor playing him. Last time I saw the show, the actor playing him portrayed Raoul as what I would call a traditional 'proper hero', far from pathetic.

However, when we're talking about film Raoul, I did think Patrick Wilson let Raoul fans down. He was just....a bit wet. Wasn't hugely fond of that casting.

Even so, by the end of the story, Christine has grown to hate the Phantom for what he's done - she wouldn't have been happy to stay down there with him forever.

[cinty]

Raoul and Christine. When I first saw the movie, I would definitely have said Christine and Erik, but I have come to appreciate the way it ends for it's true beauty. Raoul is such a sweetie and i can see why Christine loves him. she wants to marry him and live the rest of her life with him. She loves Erik too, but in a different way. I think, in light of the fact that he is her "angel" and he seems to be a link for her to her father. But, Raoul is who she wants to marry. when she kisses Erik at the end, she proves to him that she accepts him for who he is and that she loves him. that is all he needed to know. it breaks his heart to see her go and i always cry with him at that part, but really, it's the only way it could end. He couldn't expect to keep her with him always, when he has nothing to offer her and they are in danger. He realises that. Besides, love is about making the person you love happy. I'm sure Erik would have been happy to see Christine happy and safe with Raoul, because he loved her so much.
i would have loved it if Christine had stayed with him, but I wouldn't change it. the ending is too beautiful the way it is. Erik makes such a heroic sacrifice.

[The Khanum]

ERIK AND CHRISTINE. PERIOD.

I have no better explanation than what Joel Schumacher (director of the 2004 film) said himself:

"Christine's relationship with Raoul is her romantic awakening as a teenager. But her pull towards the Phantom is a very sexual, very deep soulful union."

How true, Joel...how true...

And I absolutely LOVE this line from Kay's PHANTOM:

"[Raoul] held her in trust for seventeen years until death chose to reunite her with the one to whom she truly belonged."

Kay was the queen of E/C shippers. That quote is so beautiful. There will never be a couple quite like Erik and Christine.

[wolfwynd]

Although I am a very big Erik/Christine fan I believe that Christine made the right choice going with Raoul. He was the safer bet, he was constant, stable and dependable whereas Erik is unpredictable and not all that stable. Sure Erik would have given her everything in the world but could he have given her the stability and love that she obviously craved? :o

[Antoin Dolohov]

I think that Christine should have stayed with the Phantom at the end. While Raoul is a stable foundation from which she could build a relationship from, the Phantom could bring so much more joy and passion to her life.

Staying with Raoul would leave her feeling empty - obviously the Phantom was a lot more entrancing to her than Raoul *remembers The Mirror*.

[The Khanum]

...And another thing...

I know this argument has been made about a thousand times, but Raoul only noticed Christine after she got the lead in the play. Erik saw her when she was nothing but a Chorus girl.

I changed my little status symbol to "Official E/C Shipper"...E/C FOR LIFE!!

Sorry, I got a little carried away there...

~The_Phantom_is_Sexy

[wolfwynd]

Originally posted by The_Phantom_is_Sexy
...And another thing...

I know this argument has been made about a thousand times, but Raoul only noticed Christine after she got the lead in the play. Erik saw her when she was nothing but a Chorus girl.

I changed my little status symbol to "Official E/C Shipper"...E/C FOR LIFE!!

Sorry, I got a little carried away there...

~The_Phantom_is_Sexy

I agree!! Someone said it best (I can't remember who) when they said "Where were you when Christine was an orphaned chorus gir?!" :D

[Meg Giry]

but Raoul only noticed Christine after she got the lead in the play. Erik saw her when she was nothing but a Chorus girl.


I think that's kind of unfair to Raoul, though. They were friends as children after all, and it is not a question that he didn't notice her at all until she was the soprano, but that he didn't recognise her because she'd changed since they had last met.

[cinty]

Read the book. He noticed her long before her performance. They had been childhood sweethearts and had fallen in love as small children. They ahd been reunited briefly in their teens, and both could feel the love between them growing. When he noticed her as a chorus girl, he was a shy young man of 20 who had not forgotten her and was deeply in love, but dared not approach her. He tried to a few times but she never seemed to notice him, (read the Leroux book to find out why) but when she performed that night he was intoxicated and decided he had to go to her. But, HE HAD noticed her before then, he wsa just too shy to show it. They changed it in the musical, but if you read the book, he does notice her before the performance.
I've just got one thought that hit me. In the origianl cast recording, he sings "what a change, youre' really not a bit, the gawkish girl that once you were" Personally, if they had kept that line for the movie, i would be furious. It sounds so arrogant. the line in the movie is so much sweeter.

[IamErik771]

I'm an E/C shipper, but I can understand why she chose to go with Raoul. IMO, Erik needs her more. Raoul could have had any woman he wanted, being a wealthy and handsome viscount, but it takes a special person to be able to love a hideously deformed murderer.

[Always_Erik_Fan]

Originally posted by wolfwynd
Although I am a very big Erik/Christine fan I believe that Christine made the right choice going with Raoul. He was the safer bet, he was constant, stable and dependable whereas Erik is unpredictable and not all that stable. Sure Erik would have given her everything in the world but could he have given her the stability and love that she obviously craved? :o

Okay, I am one of the biggest EC shippers you will ever find (read my phics!!!) but I have to relunctantly agree with wolfwynd. After everything Erik did to ME (putting myself in Christine's shoes here), I would NOT have wanted to stay with him for anything! I mean, he lied to her, he kidnapped her, he was going to kill her lover...
I just realized that MY Christine (in my phics) is obviously a very big person for going back to him! :D

[Selenity]

Originally posted by Meg Giry
Christine/Phantom - you're kidding, right? ;) I'm so against the idea it's not even funny. He's psychologically unstable, depriving Christine of a normal life and her career, and Christine doesn't even like him much at the end of the stage show/film because of his behaviour. I don't see romance in that at all, it'd be a very unhealthy, one-sided relationship.

I'm in total agreement. Christine didn't love the Phantom, even though he loved her with every fiber of his being, and that's what makes the story such a tragic one.

Sincerely,
Selenity

[cinty]

Hmmm..... I would have to disagree.. I do think Christine loves Erik... but not in the way she loves Raoul. Raoul is the man she wants to marry. She does, however, share a very deep and intense love with Erik. A large component of it is pity. She feels very sorry for him. And the link he represents between her and her father. But marrying him wouldn't work and at the end Erik realises it. That is partly what I feel is so beautiful about the story- he loves her so much that he lets her go to live a safe and normal life.

[Ian]

You Know, I have been Debating this all the time. I meen, I Love Christine and The Phantom, but they are more on a Lustful sence and not love. The Phantom is obsessed and would go to any measure to hurt whomever to be with Christine, yet, she dose not apprechiate it. And The Fact thatg Erik is how many years older than her?


Christine/ Raoul-

It is more sensible, she would live a better life, and she would probably be happier. They grew old togeather, and I do belive that Christine is in love with Raoul. I think its best for her

But, ERIK AND CHRISTINE ALL THE WAY!

[The Phantom]

She was in love with Raoul and obviously that was the better choice for her since she spent the rest of her living life with him until she died. He was the one that could provide her a stable house hold and care for her unlike Erik could possibly do.

Christine could have an eternity of music and darkness, but that wouldn't have been right for her. She would have changed. And possibly died way before she was supposed to. :(

[BlondeAngel]

the very first time I sawe the movie my whole body was filled with hatred twards Raoul for taking Christine from Erik ... then I read the books and I grew to understand that although Christine loves Erik in a very strange way and the he is obsessesd with her, that the true love is between Raoul and her; they have been in love since they were childeren and that love never died.

[you_are_not_alone]

i personally would hav stayed with the phantom. i mean he might be handsome and all but the one thing i never heard was "I feel really sorry for this guy, he should be happy." Don't forget that little boy that got beaten in front of peoplel; that was him. i mean think how embarrassed and hurt he felt. but whut can i say thats my opinion
----<---@ Christine ----<---@

[angelofmusic]

I think she should have stayed with the Phantom because Raoul wasn't interesting. And he didn't share her passion for music.

[The Khanum]

I posted here before, but seeing the overwhelming flood of R/C arguments here, I have to post again. To back up my beliefs, I shall be encorporating the insight of the wonderfully talented Joel Schumaker (sp. check on his last name there...)

"Raoul is Christine's romantic awakening as a teenager; but her pull towards the Phantom is a very deep, very sexual, very soulful union."

Amen to that, Joel!

Now...Raoul and Christine were friends in their youth, and therefore it makes sense to call them "childhood sweethearts." Woo-hoo, yeah for that. BUT... they are reunited years later under completely different circumstances: he, living up to the Chagny name; she, a chorus girl in the Opera House. Yes, I can see you all rolling your eyes muttering, "What, you think we don't know this?" Just bear with me for a few minutes...

Now, take Erik (and note: I am going completely by Susan Kay's PHANTOM, which I consider to be the most faithful and *true* collection out there)- He went through basically all his life without ever having been in love...he felt lust, yes, but never true love. Then he meets Christine...and he falls in love. Yes, it borderlines on obsession, but that is because of the fact that this was the first time he felt the way he did.

Picking up at Christine's POV: Raoul, the boy she has had a crush on since she was fifteen, is returning her affections. I mean, who wouldn't be thrilled? But now she also has this dark, mysterious tutor with her...a man she cannot help but be enthralled with. Yes, he frightens her deeply, and yes, she feels a great deal of pity for him...but there is something deeper between them besides young infatuation, which is all that is developing between Raoul and Christine. Quote from Kay:

"What a strange array of twisted emotions bound us [Erik and Christine] together, and in comparison how terribly inadequate the simplicity of my love for Raoul appeared. First love, shallow and insubstantial, entirely devoid of the unplumbed shadows and incandescent light of my bondage to Erik."

Erik is her tutor, her mentor, her guardian, and her friend. Yes, in the book, she calls him her friend. This relationship between them is highly unstable: he has a very volatile temper. Eventually she is pushed into the arms of Raoul by her fear; if I may quote:

"What I'm doing to Raoul is almost as wicked as what I've done to you [Erik], but I'm too tired to fight his determination any longer. I just want the decision taken out of my hands."

Now, at the climax of most of the versions, Christine is to make a decision. It's up to the reader to determine the reasons behind her final choice: Erik. Many would say it's because she doesn't want Raoul to die. Well, of course she doesn't! She does feel a sort of love for him...nothing like what she feels for Erik, mind you, but she cares deeply for him. I believe that her decision is highly influenced by the sight of the broken man Erik has become: before, he was powerful...omnipotent...unbelievably so. Now, she has seen down into the very core of the man she feared: He is alone, and he never had expected anything else, until he met her. She realizes this...in every version, she realizes this. And here is where Christine the girl becomes Christine the woman: She steps past her fears and embraces the man whose face and manner and entire morality terrifies her.

I will never believe for a moment that Christine did not love Erik. And I will never believe that her love for Raoul is greater than her love for Erik. Another Kay quote (spoken by Raoul) :

"And somehow, the harder she tried to make me happy, the more quietly certain I became that she had loved Erik far more than she had ever loved me."

Should Christine have stayed with Erik? Should she have abandoned her life, her love for Raoul, in exchange for an existence with an utterly unpredictable man? Here is where it is entirely up to the version. The movie/play? Yes, definitely. Erik needed her so desperately...they both had full lives in which they had to live apart from each other. The book? No. It was Erik's desire to never have Christine be alone. He was dying, and he knew it. She needed a man who could protect her after his death, and Raoul could do that (well, at least Kay!Raoul could...)

I'd like to end this ridiculously long post with one last Kay quote, by Raoul:

"I had held her in trust for seventeen years until death chose to reunite her with the one to whom she truly belonged."

~Erik is my Hero

[ChristineDaae]

Personally, I didn't like Raoul in any version of the story, until the new movie, but that aside, Christine made the safe choice. Raoul is safe, Erik is not. To me, safe is boring, and had I been in her shoes, eventually, I would have grown bored with Raoul.

[cinty]

I have a view on this, and I think it's quite a good one. Christine is an emotionally unstable girl. Erik is also emotionally unstable. he longs to have Christine and take care of her emotional problems, but HE CAN'T. He couldn't deal with it, though he would love to, because he has his own emotional problems to deal with. Raoul, who hasn't had a past full of turmoil, can look after her and deal with her emotional problems. Erik would love to, but he can't. That is why, while I would love to see Erik and Christine together, it is best the way it is.

[Christine Daaé]

All right, here's my take.

In truth, though the bond between Erik and Christine was a "very soulful union", in the end, would she be safe with Erik? Keep in mind that in the Kay book -- this pains me, because "canon" issues are coming up once again -- he was on the verge of killing her out of rage many times. Raoul would never do something like that.

Yes, Raoul and Christine's love is a very childish, very innocent one, and in the end, a safe one. Christine could never hope to have a normal life with Erik. It's just not possible. True, in the Leroux book, Erik made a mask that would make him look like everybody else. So he and Christine could go out in public, buy a house, have kids, whatever, right? That may be so, but he's still insane. As much as she loved him, she would always be frightened of him, and that's not part of a healthy relationship.

As Cinty said, much of Christine's love for Erik is sympathetic rather than romantic. There may be an element of romance, but it's only an element, rather than the whole thing, which, by the way, Raoul and Christine's love is.

Erik loves Christine, and she loves him. It's a beautiful story, and I wish they could have stayed together. But realistically, it just can't happen. Some may argue that Christine was able to "change" Erik with her love and pity. I used to argue that, too. But in reality, nobody can change someone else in a matter of moments. It takes years, possibly a lifetime.

Raoul can stabilize Christine, because she is, indeed, emotionally unstable. So is Erik. A relationship between two emotionally unstable people cannot stand. Sure, it's a passionate one and a soulful one, but in the end, almost always a tragically fatal one.

Raoul can make Christine feel safe. Erik cannot. Though I believe Erik and Christine were soul mates, in the end, it was only meant to be for a time, not forever.

~ Zelda de le Fantôme

[Maria]

That's a very hurd quetion but i got 2 opinions one she should be with Phantom and Raoul should be with Meg and my secound opinion is that Christine should be with Raul and Meg with The Phantom,it's actualy mine and my friend thoughts

[cinty]

Originally posted by Maria
That's a very hurd quetion but i got 2 opinions one she should be with Phantom and Raoul should be with Meg and my secound opinion is that Christine should be with Raul and Meg with The Phantom,it's actualy mine and my friend thoughts
Meg's so pretty and cute, it always seems such a shame that she doesn't end up with anyhone. :D

[Luciana]

I'm a strong E/C shipper. I just can't see Raoul presenting her with the life she deserves. She'll have pretty clothes and so much money, but where's the passion? What they had was an innocent attraction. It reminds me of the crushes my sister gets on the young 5th grade science teacher. No sexual attraction, just a cute face and a stable situation.

The Phantom presented her with more of a risk, one that would have been worth it in the end. Erik NEEDED her. Raoul only has to flip his hair and he has women all over him. Meg said it herself 'Oh, Christine, he's so handsome.'

And to the people that mention that they were childhood friends, then, she was the daughter of the fameous violinist. Where was he when she was orphaned and hurt? Where was he while she was struggling to accept her father's death? He was in his house, eating his expensive food, not thinking about her more then a fleeting second.

The Phantom used her as his inspiration, and she did the same. They depended on each other. She was his world, he was her savior.

I truly think she would have stayed with him if he hadn't tryed to kill Raoul and then scream at her to leave.

Of course, I only wish that I could have come and helped. I really like Erik and think that Christine could have too.

[Phantomgirl05]

Christine made the right choice to be with Raoul. I believe Christine truly felt sorry for Erik, and while she may have loved Erik, I think she loved him more as a mentor and a friend. I think she was in love with Raoul. Like everybody else here says, Raoul could provide her with a safe, stable relationship...Erik could not. And I think both Christine and Erik knew that, why he let her go and why she went with Raoul. As for shipping, I ship both couples...but more Christine/Raoul, in the movie, at least.

Oh yes, and I really believe the Phantom only really loved Christine for her beauty and her voice. It was more of a lust thing then actual love. I think Raoul really did love her...and he knew her better than Erik because he'd known her since they were children.

[Phantomgirl05]

Originally posted by whencatsattack
I think the Phantom did love her. If it had only been lust, then why would he have let her go at the end? If he was only obsessed with her physically, then I don't think he would have had a change of heart.
]
What I was trying to say was that he did love her, as a friend, but lusted for her. He first heard her voice. If it hadn't been for her voice, he probably would have never fallen for her. But Raoul has been in love with her for years...and didn't just love her for her voice or beauty because I believe he knew Christine really well. So he let her go because he did love her, but in another kind of way.

I'm sure Christine still thought of Erik while she was with Raoul, but she definitely loved Raoul. He wasn't just a "safe choice".

[The_Persian]

I am sure that she could have been happy with Erik if he hadbeen slightly less frightening... I am not talking about how he looks, but how he acts. No matter what way you look at it Erik is mad. However, Raoul seems boring and dumb, not sexy at all! I dont feel a very strong bond between them at all! Raoul obviously loves christine, but does Chistine really love him? I always felt that it was more of a crush then love.

Christine obviuosly loved Erik, and he did for her what no other man could do. He gave her a voice! However, I'm not sure Christine would be completely happy with him... she would never be able to go out anywhere without him flipping out!

Oh, this is such a hard question to answer! I cant really say whether she made the right descision or not... my thougths are so scattered! ill have to write them all down someday and sort them out.....

[YoungGiry]

A normal life is overrated.

Let me explain.

Most people live out normal, boring, mundane lives. Lives which are "acceptable". Erik does not. His life, though lonley, has meaning. It is daring, risky, dangarus and violent, but it has meaining.

Raoul lives a life of mundanity, no true cares, no emotion, nothing below the surface, only petty social conflicts.

Most people these days live like Raoul, to some extent.

Christine was offered a life without mundanity, but she was weak. She was afraid of the darkness in herself, and became entranced by the petty world that Raoul offered. She loses her connection to the darkness.

But in my opinion she should have chosen the life lacking in mundanity, as should many people today.

[phantoms_nemo]

I would say that either way its a loss for sumone but if I was in the movie I would have wanted Christine to go with Raoul so the Phantom would be free for dates

[IamErik771]

Very good points there, Rachel.

I think Erik really did love Christine, and not just for her looks or her voice. I sort of agree with something Joel Schumacher said in an interview. He said that Erik is drawn to Christine partly because of her beauty and voice, but mostly because he saw her as the symbol of purity and innocence in the opera company. Everyone else (especially Carlotta) was petty, greedy, and egotistical. Christine was none of those things; it seemed she couldn't care less about money. He was also drawn to her by the fact that they had both suffered in their lives, so he thought that maybe by being together, they could help each other heal from their emotional wounds.

In the novel, I think Raoul is the one Christine truly loves. She pities Erik, and she is drawn to him, but because of his deeds and his face, she can never truly love him.

I don't think I agree with the epilogue in the new film, though. In the end, it is clear that Erik outlived Christine, and that he visited her grave. How could he possibly live for that long when "she alone could make his song take flight?" Did he find another girl or something? In the novel, he literally can't live without Christine, and dies of a broken heart shortly after letting her go. In other words, he sacrificed himself completely so that she would be happy. In the stage musical, they never really explain what happened to him (which I like).

[Mouette]

I honestly think she should have chosen Erik.

Raoul has NEVER listened to Christine. Not when she tells him 'No'. He doesn't listen in her dressing room because he wants to go out with her. He doesn't even listen to her protests when he is putting her in danger in order to rid himself of his rival for her love. Every time Christine tells Raoul 'No', he ignores it. Whereas, unless I am very much mistaken, Christine never even says no to Erik. Not, at least, till the very end when he is going to kill her childhood friend, Raoul. And then what does he do? Oh, true, he threatens for a bit, but he eventually lets them both go (though that kiss may have had something to do with it).

Raoul is affectionate, but love? Would he do anything to keep Christine with him the way Erik so obviously would? And, more importantly . . . if he believed it was the best thing for her, would Raoul give Christine up to Erik if she so chose?

Okay, so Erik's crazy. But he seems to be at his best when Christine is showing/telling him she loves him. To have lived a life utterly without love, for him to be as normal as he is is remarkable. I'm definitely not saying that anything he does when she chooses not to love him is her fault; it isn't, he makes his own choices. But his best behaviour comes as a result of her faithfulness.

Why I really hate the R/C ending? Because in giving Christine up, Erik earns the right to have her with him because he has proven that he loves her more than he loves himself.

Raoul is an idiot. I'm sorry, but my least favorite line of his is the "Yet while he lives, he will haunt us till we're dead" line. He honestly believes--despite all evidence to the contrary, such as Christine leaving him not once but twice to follow Erik's voice--that killing Erik will silence him. Christine may live another sixty years past the death of her beloved Angel, but she will hear his voice with her dying breath. Even at sixteen, I don't think she could just forget being loved like that, and Raoul is foolish for believing that he can erase Erik from her mind.


Of course, there is the other side of the coin--would Christine, or any woman for that matter, really want Erik raising her children? (Sure, son, I'll show you how to make a proper lasso. What do you mean, angry with your sister? No, you throw it like this.) And I'll admit that Erik is dangerous and he can scare me . . . but I don't honestly think he would really hurt her. Come close to it, maybe, but . . . I don't know.

[IamErik771]

Originally posted by Mouette
Raoul is affectionate, but love? Would he do anything to keep Christine with him the way Erik so obviously would? And, more importantly . . . if he believed it was the best thing for her, would Raoul give Christine up to Erik if she so chose?
...
Why I really hate the R/C ending? Because in giving Christine up, Erik earns the right to have her with him because he has proven that he loves her more than he loves himself.

Very good points, Whittney. And I absolutely agree, but in the end, I think that (in the novel, anyway) Raoul is definitely the safer choice. In the musical, it's a much more difficult choice, since they made Erik less dangerous and more attractive.

[Vivian]

I must agree with those who state Christine made an erroneous decision when she chose Raoul. Erik could have given her much more than what Raoul could... true passion, unadulterated love. Taken, Erik's love boardered obsession, but there were heavy reasons for his erratic behavious. Christine did indeed love Erik, and love must always be accompanied by courage. Christine did not have the courage to face some aspects of the Phantom, sadly, aspects which Christine through her love could have obliterated. I believe Christine needed Erik almost as much as Erik needed her. Raoul had no need for her, or vice versa; he was enfatuated. Now, there has been a point made that Christine remained with Raoul for the rest of her days; this argumant lacks streigth as women of those times married once, and for the rest of their lives. As for Raoul being able to give Christine a normal, happy life, whereas Erik could not, I do not quite agree that "normalcy" was what Christine wanted or desired. I would further explain this point, but I have to rise three hours, which leaves about two hours of sleep before a busy day!

-V-

[YoungGiry]

*blushes* I think I may have adapted the story of PotO to fit my own ideals in my above post. Just a little...

But maybe I didn't modify it so much! Vivian seems to have agreed with me a little with her comment about "normalcy"! Hurray!

All this about safe lives makes me sick.

[CountessDaae]

Christine and Phantom..all the way. Even though he is alittle crazy, The phantom is really in love with her. Raoul seems too much like a pretty boy and actually the Phantom was after Christine first before Raoul ever came along.

[RoseDark]

In one Leroux translation (the Wolf one, though I think most of it can be found in the other translations except for Christine's lines being cut down), Raoul and Christine have a conversation that has Raoul saying that she and Erik have the most exiting kind of love, because her fear makes it thrilling to her, and asks her that, if things were different, would she be with Erik?, to which she responds, "Why tempt fate? ...Why do you question that which I hide deep in my conscience like a sin."


So, I feel that Erik/Christine is the most soul-deep, passionate (and from my POV as a reader, interesting) one of the two relationships, but, circumstances being what they were, it couldn't have ended that way in canon.



And that's what AUs, continuations, what-ifs and retellings are for in fan fiction.


(oh, and my apologies for any necroposting/thread ressurecting.)

[Erik]

I am all for ERIK + CHRISTINE

I believe Raoul loved Christine, but I don't think he loved her more than the Phantom did. The Phantom was completely devoted to her. He practically worshipped her. Plus, we know she loved him to. She loved both of them, but I believe she loved the Phantom more...I think she was confused. At first she was hopelessly in love with her Angel of Music, then Raoul came along. Add that with the confusion of realizing that her Angel of Music was actually the Phantom of the Opera (someone to be feared), and she would naturally run. I think that if she stayed with the Phantom, then she would have seen that the Phantom was still the same person she fell in love with in the first place.

I don't know if I'm right about the whole 'Christine realizing the Angel of Music was the Phantom' thing, but that is the conclusion one of my friends helped me to reach.

[sunshine]

Christine and Phantom is my personal choice I think they would have been so much better together, not that I have anything against Raoul or anything but then again with out Raoul there would have been no story at all and there would be no POTO phans today....so in that case yay for Raoul but I still like Erik better :D

[Holy_Aeris]

Christine and Raoul i think is better. Christine woudn't be as happy with the Phantom. A part of her would feel somewhat trapped.

At least with Raoul she would be free to walk the streets with him, and not have to hide.

[sunshine]

In Lerouxs book Christine and Erik go on a carriage ride together, and his mask woud pritty much hide his face so I think they could walk the streets together, If Christine excepted Erik then they wouldnt need to hide :D

[Lise]

Christine should have stayed with the Phantom. She did love him, though she loved Raoul more. How could she betray the man who made her somebody important? I think she should have been able to accept him as he was, flaws and all.

[Red_Rose_of_Tears]

ERIK/CHRISTINE ALL THE WAY BABY!!! :D

Their love is very realistic. She grew up with him, knew him and felt safe with him. (In the movie anyway...) He loves her so much, it's very beautiful. Just look at 'Music of the Night.' You can really tell that he cares for her, and would do anything for her. I don't think he's crazy at the end of the movie, just majorly POed because she betrayed him. He would be a great husband to her, I think, just as long as they stayed hidden. It could work out.

E/C IS MY PASSION!!! :D

[metafizzypop]

What a terrible choice to have to make. No matter who Christine picks, she misses out on something. She can have security and stability from Raoul, but she has to sacrifice the cerebral eroticism she gets from the Phantom. A healthy adult relationship should have both elements. A woman shouldn't have to choose between the two. But I guess that's what life was like for women at the time the book was written. The things that the Phantom encouraged in Christine -- sexuality, intellect, creativity -- were not "proper" for women in those days. So she had to give them up to lead a normal life -- with her Prince Charming. But at the end of the movie, as Raoul and Christine float away in the boat, leaving the Phantom behind, Christine LOOKS BACK. Though she wants to lead a stable existance, she knows that she had to give up something of tremendous value for it. The real tragedy of "The Phantom of the Opera" is that a young woman was forced by society to give up all those things that the Phantom encouraged and represented, traits of strength, sexuality, independance, and artistic mastery.

[Christine Daaé]

Originally posted by Red_Rose_of_Tears
ERIK/CHRISTINE ALL THE WAY BABY!!! :D

Their love is very realistic. She grew up with him, knew him and felt safe with him. (In the movie anyway...) He loves her so much, it's very beautiful. Just look at 'Music of the Night.' You can really tell that he cares for her, and would do anything for her. I don't think he's crazy at the end of the movie, just majorly POed because she betrayed him. He would be a great husband to her, I think, just as long as they stayed hidden. It could work out.

E/C IS MY PASSION!!! :D

Love like that is realistic -- but one-sided, and only if you happen to be a stalker.

She did not feel safe with him, in any version, once she discovered the violent nutcase behind the mask. "Their" love is not even "theirs" -- it's "his". Christine, once she finds out that her Angel of Music is really a violent, insane stalker, wants to get away from him, so much that she nearly has a mental breakdown in ALW. That's the reason why she goes down to the cemetary in the first place.

He cares for her, yes. But not enough to not kill her in a fit of rage. Is that the sign of a good husband to you?

Leroux, Kay, ALW, movie -- in every single one, Erik is insane. Would you want to be married to someone who dragged you around by the hair, threatened to kill you if you did not marry him, and was crazy enough to kill you if he didn't get his way?

E/C is realistic only in the realm of fanfiction, and even then, only when the characters are not sugarcoated or OOC.

If their marriage stayed hidden, no one would know that Erik had eventually killed Christine, and nothing could be done about it.

~ Zelda

[AngelicRose]

I'm an E/C shipper for life :phanc1:

...and I want to say one more thing: God Bless Susan Kay. lol. :cool:

[AAW0487]

I am honestly for Christine and Erik!!! I love them together. At the end of the movie if you read the Companion..it says that Christine turns back to the Phantom as though she was singing for the him. "Share each day with me....each night...each morning.." and at the end Raoul looks so miserable. And I'm not sure if its' because him and Christine had issues at the end of her life, or just her death took a toll on his health. It could have been either. But it almost seems that Christine wanted to be with Erik. I don't know I just think Christine and Erik had a lot more in common when it came to music, which was her love and passion in life.
:phanc2:

[Chance_or_Destiny]

Rock on Erik and Christine, like so many others have already pointed out - Erik is just so much more a man than that silly fop, Raoul. Honestly, in the movie he's more heroic, but read the book, he aint nothing but a whining little child. How in the world Christine could give up teh passion and music that Erik provided is beyond me, cause theres no way i could have.

[eriks_protege]

Raoul and Christine.

Why? Because she loves him, and he loves her back.

And Erik? Christine doesn't love him. She's said so in every version (except for Kay, but I hate Kay. Actually, no, I love Kay, but, when she got to where Leroux started...*splat*). Maybe not outright, but she has.

Erik didn't love Christine either (WAIT BEFORE YOU GET MAD AT ME). He was obsessed with her, infatuated her, and wanted her. He didn't love her. Not like Raoul loved her.

He didn't give a damn about what she wanted...he just wanted her, and that was it for him.

Until the end.

At the end, he realized that if he really, truly loved her, he would have to let her go, so she could be happy with the one she really and truly loved.

Whereas Raoul loved her...REALLY loved her...all that time. AND was infatuated with her. Don't tell me that he wasn't...he was. He stalked her, too, you know.

And, aside from Christine's feelings, there was the fact that he is INSANE, guys. He's psychotic. What kind of life would that be? With a psychotic man you don't love? Away, in the cellars of an opera house?

A heck of a bad life, that's what.

Raoul made Christine feel happy and safe and loved. Erik, on the other hand, made her feel guilty and miserable and suicidal.

Also, guys, it's a two way street. I see you guys saying that ERIK 'deserved' her, or that ERIK should have her because HE loves her, that ERIK should have her because she would console him and boost his self esteem and all that jazz...but what about Christine? Is she just like...property? A prize to be won? She's a living human being with feelings, you know.

And none of those feelings happen to be for Erik.

I mean, she does has feelings for him, but those feelings...aren't love.

But her feelings for Raoul do include love. And Raoul's feelings for her do, too.

I'd like to quote a friend of mine from another site, who goes by the name Firefly_Phantom:

"I was browsing through some old threads in the Silver Screen forum, and came across this one: http://www.phantomoftheopera.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2773&forum=8& "Would Christine Have Survived if She Had Stayed With Erik in His Lair?" When I saw this post:

Quote:

andy_flipper wrote:
I like to think that Christine would have survived, because she would have helped the phantom to accept himself.



I just felt an uncontrollable urge to say something that's been bothering me for a while, now. I gotta get this out of my system, or I'll explode. This is really just a rant (I seem to do that a lot...) but I decided to make it a separate topic, in case anyone wanted to discuss this issue. And I hope people do, because I want answers, d*mm*t.
This poster said that Christine would have survived, because she would have helped the Phantom to accept himself. I'm lost, here. How would boosting Gerik's self-esteem allow Christine to thrive in the darkness of the lair? I can't help but feel that there is a flaw in this logic, here. Sure, it might have allowed Gerik to thrive and flourish, but what about Christine?

And that, fellow phans, is what's been eating at me. What about Christine? So many of you are so quick to say that Erik "deserves" her, or that she "belongs" to him, or that Raoul "stole" her from Erik. You're so quick to toss her to Erik, regardless of what she might have wanted for herself, on the grounds that he "needed" her. I actually saw one particularly appalling post on this site, in a thread called "What Should the Police Have Done," [Re: bringing 2004!Movie Phantom to justice] that said something along the lines of "They should have dragged Christine back to the lair and forced her to stay with Erik!!!!" Is Christine a piece of property, to be coveted and stolen and hoarded? Is she a trophy to be awarded to the best man, or a piece of meat to be sold to the highest bidder? Granted, women at that time were little more than property, according to the rules of society, but come on! We're not in the 1800s!

Christine, whether fictional or real, was a woman with wants and needs of her own. She belonged to neither Erik nor Raoul! Why are you all so eager to treat her like a prized mare, or a valuable trinket? And don't give me that "Erik deserved her because she was the only one who could make him happy and he deserved to be loved!" nonsense. In Leroux, maybe. IMO, Gerik brought his isolation upon himself by hiding away in the cellars all his life. He could easily have gone out into society, with his fancy clothes and his suave leather mask, making up a story about his face getting burned while he was rescuing a young lady's cat from a burning barn or something. He would have had to beat the eligible young women off with a stick! Yeah, Erik (in every version) deserved to be loved, but at the expense of Christine's happiness and freedom? Oh, please. What about what Christine wanted? What about what she needed? Maybe she didn't want to spend the rest of her life with a temperamental genius! Maybe she wanted a safe, "boring" life. Does she not deserve happiness, too? Does Erik's obsession and loneliness render her own desires invalid? Is it her duty to be Erik's "living bride," regardless of her own feelings? What does this say to other women, then-- that if a man "needs" you, then it's your duty to stay with him whether you like it or not? How would you feel if you were Christine, and you were reading some of these comments-- how would you feel if people who don't even know you wanted to run your life, just because they have an infatuation with a masked madman? Who are you to dictate what Christine "should have" done? Even Erik was able to admit to himself that Christine would have been miserable living with him in his lair. And I agree with him; she would not have done well in that kind of life. If Erik can admit it, why can't you?

Oh, and if you're going to reply in defense of the "Erik deserved her" stance, please say something other than "Erik deserves her because he had a sh*tty life!", "Christine was a shallow whore," or anything similar. I've heard all that before. Please come up with actual, solid reasoning. Also, please, for the love of all that is good, do not bash Raoul or Christine in this thread. I want serious discussion, people, not phangirlish whingeing. I'm not trying to p*ss anyone off, I just want to understand. And if I do p*ss someone off... well, that's just dandy, because I'm pretty p*ssed off, myself. Misery loves company, and all that jazz.

This rant has been brought to you by F_P's outraged feminist sensibilities. Thank you, and good night."

I'd like you to think about that.

And, by the way, RAOUL IS NOT A FOP.

Raoul has never once shown any concern about his clothes or appearance. Did he stop to primp when he was saving Christine? I don't think so!

He's not perfect (he's quite naive, quite brash and impulsive, and a little foolish at times), but at least he's not a psychotic, deformed, fop, like a certain Phantom that comes to mind!

And Erik IS a fop...a fop is a man who is excessively fastidious about his/her appearance. And Erik only has the BEST clothes (even though no one is supposed to see him in them), and rants and raves about his face ALL THE TIME! I'm pretty sure Christine HATED that.

What's more, Christine loves Raoul. And I respect her judgement. You should, too, you know, since you're so in love with Erik (at least, I think you are. I certainly am). Any woman Erik loves (even if it did take the whole book for him to REALLY love her) deserves respect.

Raoul was willing to give his life up for Christine, too! He begged her-BEGGED her-to choose to go free instead of saving him! THAT'S how much he loves her!

Raoul loved her all that time. While Erik didn't REALLY love her until the end.

*gets off soapbox*

[queen]

erils_protege,I TOTALLY agree with you!
I used to be an EC shipper...but like a month ago I came to my senses.I don't need to express my opinions because eriks_protege has already done that. What we need to do is see and understand is Christines point of view.

And just all have a think,all EC shippers, how you would feel if you lived 5 stories underground,tied a man who FORCED you to marry him?
Erik is not Butler Erik and can you expect this man to:

be a devoted husband who was unendingly perfect and never lost his temper at you
be a good father
live a normal life with him[

[AngelicRose]

I'm sorry but I'm going to disagree with what you said, eriks_protege and queen.

I won't start typing up why I disagree with you because I always tend to end up in arguements. lol.

I just want to state that I don't agree with what you said. I'm a proud E/C shipper (not so much a fluffy E/C shipper. I love the complications between them).

Again, I'm not looking for a debate. You have your opinions and I have mine.

[eriks_protege]

Oh, what's an arguement between friends? It's just a lively, good-spirited debate, good for the brain. Why not? Do tell us.

[AngelicRose]

I hate debating though. I just felt the need to say I don't agree with you, but I very much respect your opinion.

[queen]

That's the attitude,ma cherie:thumb:

[The Floor]

Huh. I think Christine was right to go with Raoul - in the book. He was willing to give his life for her, and she needed the affection he offered her. Looking at the '04 movie and the musical, there was clearly a connection between her and the Phantom that she and Raoul could never match - there, I believe she would have been happier with Erik. The reason the part of Christine is so hard to act in the musical is because for half of it, you're throwing yourself at the phantom, and the other half, you're hiding from him in horror - completely polarized perspectives. And that's why we those who haven't read the books yet sympathize with E/C.

Anyhoodles... I'm gonna leave now. See ya!

[MystMoonstruck]

I will continue to support the Christine/Raoul pairing because there is no way to get away from the fact that the Phantom/OG/Erik is the proverbial mad genius AND a serial killer. I see the gothic draw of him, but he has become fixated on Christine and is obsessed as opposed to in love. When he can't win her, he terrorizes her. True, Christine is physically drawn to him, but that doesn't mean he's the right person for her.

Picture this relationship elsewhere, and it's no longer so romantic.

Erik is much older than Christine; he would have years ahead to become more possessive of her. He would continue brooding and hating practically everyone but her. Would they have children? Would those children be happy in this subterranean world? Well, yes, children tend to think that any environment is the norm; but, if they had one child, how long before he or she would want to see the world?

It's easy to romanticize the two together, but it's a completely inappropriate match. Would the passion last? In not so many years, Christine could be dealing with an aged, demented, obsessive husband/lover? Could Christine be happy living in that environment?

I still support her going with Raoul. Near the end, she does say that she has come to hate Erik. Why would she stay with the man who has been more Svengali than potential lover?

eriks_protege makes excellent points! I've been reading previous posts and came upon that one. Hooray! I guess I'm looking at it from Christine's POV, too--not Raoul's or Erik's. Let's hear it for what Christine deserves in that time period. It's a major thing that SHE makes the choice; Raoul doesn't truly "win" her but is accepted by her as the choice she most wants to make.

CHECK YOUR DICTIONARY for the word "fop". Raoul does NOT fit that description though the new business managers might come close. LOL! e_p is right: Erik far more fits the fop role because of his obsession with his clothing and looks. At the masquerade, HE has to wear red so that he doesn't blend.

I'm fascinated by the character of the Phantom, but I fear the notion is being glamorized far too much. If a deformed madman had been passing himself off as a confidante and teacher then basically carried someone to someplace remote (and more than a little creepy, even with all the set dressing), I think he would end up in a whole lot of trouble--manhunt, trial, prison and all. Don't let the deformity become an excuse for Erik's behavior. e_g noted that he can use a mask, makeup and wig to help his appearance; so, there's no reason that he couldn't have taken a place in society. He demanded a salary; so, what did he do with all of it? He could have purchased a home and led a life aboveground. But, nowhere does he promise this to Christine.

[Angel's Muse]

Right...I am going to keep this as understandable as possible.

I am an E/C shipper.

No...wait for it. Let me explain myself.

I am an E/C shipper because I personally find that relationship a lot more complex, a lot deeper, and a lot more, for want of a better word, explorable than the R/C one.

It is true that it may not be extremely realistic.
It is true that Christine loved Raoul, not Erik.

But Erik/Christine often (note that I say often and not always) makes for a more interesting plotline and more complex, developed emotions for the characters involved.

I am not sl*gging off R/C in any way. It's beautiful relationship, yes. I admit, freely, that it is very sweet. But does writing endless fluff about Raoul and Christine living a happy life together really make for an exciting and interesting read?

Of course, there are endless good R/C stories out there. But I don't ship R/C because I'm lazy. Yes, it's true. I cannot summon the energy to think up a fantastic R/C plotline as opposed to taking the 'easy' method and writing an E/C story with a plotline that can be dreamed up with much less effort. That isn't to say I haven't tried my hand at R/C stories.

I am speaking, of course, in terms of fanfiction alone.

^I think the above may have offended some devout R/C shippers. Let me expand on that...

All I'm saying, is that I, as a writer, find it a lot easier to work on an E/C relationship which may or may not be non-existent, because I find it interesting to explore (or create) the characters' thoughts, interesting to write 'what if?' stories, and just generally more satisfying, because in the end, I prefer Erik to Raoul.

I do not prefer Erik to Raoul in the romantic sense. If I was Christine, I'd have been out of Paris with Raoul faster than you could say 'All I Ask Of You.'

I prefer Erik to Raoul because he is a great literary character, is more original than Raoul (although Raoul is a very, very, very sweet character ^____^), and is just more...more fascinating to me than Raoul.

Let me make a note before I continue:
I HAVE read Leroux's novel and I adored every word of it.

Now...let me move on to the Leroux aspect of this...

I am in no way going to challenge Christine's decision in the book. Erik was a deranged, deformed, psychotic murderer, he tricked her, hypnotised her, abducted her and threatened her, he took advantage of her mental state...and yeah, he did not behave in the way a lover should. But I still insist that he loved her. He behaved in the way he did because he did not understand what it was to love. I mean, he can't have had much experience, could he? If his deformity was really as bad as Leroux claimed, NO amount of make up could have covered it up. Remember that we are not talking about the famous Gerik sunburn of DOOM here. Why did Erik rant about his face? It because his whole life, other people were RANTING AND RAVING AND SCREAMING AND FAINTING because of his face. Yes, he had a sh*tty life! If you've never been loved and always been feared, even as a child, wouldn't it shape your personality?

Right...now I'm the one feeling p*ssed, but I'm going calm down, and debate nicely. :mask:

Raoul, on the other hand, practically worshipped the ground Christine walked on. He was prepared to give up everything for her, his money, his position in society, even his own family. He was utterly, sincerely (and very sweetly, may I add) in love with Christine. Awwwwwww.

I’m getting really, really tired of the ‘Raoul is a stupid fop with long hair’ argument. It’s insubstantial…and just…shallow. It gives E/C phangirls like me a bad name, and it’s giving movie fans a bad name too. ‘The fop argument’ is more like poking fun at Raoul than actually debating about him. Where’s the proof? The truth is, there isn’t any proof. He was anything but a fop. Ever. ESPECIALLY in the movie.

I thought he turned out as a bit of a 'rebel' in the movie. His hair would have been out of fashion at that time, his clothes were casual, he didn't seem to care what anyone else thought of his appearance. He would have married Christine and those who opposed him could have gone to hell. And he was definitely a hero. Not to mention a great singer in that version. *le sigh*

However, Erik is not a fop either. Erik did not have Raoul's confidence about his looks, because while Raoul had praised for his handsomeness all his life, Erik had grown up being told he was a monster. Wouldn't you be worried about your looks if everybody told you your nose was like a squashed tomato (sorry, low on imagination at the moment) and your hair resembled a bird's nest? Would you care as much if everybody told you that you were beautiful?

End of Rant. Did that make sense? Of course it didn’t. But this should outline it for you quite nicely:

My conclusion: R/C, but E/C fanfiction all the way. So I’m a Raoul fan, but that doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to like Erik. And Erik interests me more. Which is why the E/C relationship interests me more.

It’s also because…(yes, I know what you’re thinking. Not another point!)
It’s also because we do not get the full story of what goes on between Erik and Christine. Nothing remotely romantic, probably, but still, we don’t know everything. It’s so…I don’t know…nice to be able to fill in the gaps with my writing.

I have yet another thing to add (just one more):

Personally, if I didn't enjoy expanding on the Erik/Christine relationship (which I add, does not really exist in the world of canon) so much, I'd ship Erik/Nobody. One day, when I have the energy and initiative, I'll set out to write a story depicting Erik's life (as a bachelor, I hate E/OW with a passion) after Christine left him. One day.

EDIT: Gosh, I've only just realised how long that is.

EDIT 2: Wait! I've got something else to say!

Erik and Christine cannot be brought together in 'real life' (that phrase just annoys me for some reason). Through the power of fanfiction, and a writer's pen, they can. There are many brilliant, plausible E/C fics with wonderfully developed characters and plotlines on the internet. So just because it can't happen for real, doesn't mean it can't happen through the power of imagination and writing.

[POTOFAN12]

chrisitine & phantom

[Angel's Muse]

Daniel, just a friendly reminder. Posts of under twenty words are generally counted as spam on this board. Please, don't take offence, just try to expand on that a little more.

[masquerading rose]

My sister hates E/C with a passion. I can torerate it, mainly because SOME stories I read don't bash Raoul. I like it when stroies make my Raoul the hero.

I mean the ship is plausible, but I HATE the clich`es. One of them is "Erik-take-me-Raoul-beats-me." I mean honsetly, do you think Raoul, who risked his life for Chrostine and loves her would really turn her into a housewife and beat her? HONESTLY!

[Angel's Muse]

However, there are ways to write E/C fanfiction without being crass or cliche. The wifebeater/alcoholic/womaniser/rapist!Raoul isn't a must have, and neither is the Nice Kitten Lover!Erik. Some of the best fanfiction I have read (I am speaking of Wandering Child, of course) is E/C. I'm not saying that all E/C fics are better than R/C ones. I'm saying that bashing Raoul isn't a necessity in an E/C fic.

[masquerading rose]

You don't need it ay all! I don't even see how those cliches come about. I get what your saying. I really think its the way its written that matters. You can have a horrible R/C fiction and a wonderful E/C fiction or Vise versa. If you ship one thing, you don't have to like a story written for it.

Wanna know something kinda strange? (Nothing agaisnt anybody wjho ships this) There are more R/E stories out there than R/C. That's kind of weird because R/C is canon. Right?

[sweet_intoxication]

But if it's R/C, then Erik will be so lonely. He never understood or experienced any love before Christine kissed him at the end.

It's hard to say...Raoul was as many say, a safer bet, but he's such a ''pretty boy'', Erik was more daring, I liked his personality a lot more, maybe also due to the fact it was explored in the 04 film and the stage production, a lot more deeper, but the fact Erik IS a murderer...puts me off. And obviously, without saying, I suppose is a disadvantage to Christine as well.

And plus, even though many think the Phantom is more desirable than Raoul, he is sort of scary - the whole dummy bride thing. Very obsessive!

[phantom's_rose]

Well. I am an E/C fan, but that's only becuase I am like madly in love with the part of Erik in that movie. But otherwise, I really would not care who the right person for Christine was.
[QUOTE]And plus, even though many think the Phantom is more desirable than Raoul, he is sort of scary [QUOTE]
Well...I guess you could say he was...*hesitates* scary, I agree...but I would just NEVER admit it. If I had to say anything (keep in mind I am madly in <3 with Erik) "he has his own way of expressing himself"
And those are my thoughts.

[angelofthenight]

As my cousin once put it Raoul is one hundred percent husband material...with that said I am a die hard E/C fan. I think Erik and Christine's relationship as previously stated is much more deep an d interesting. Their relationship is not nearly as predictable as Raoul's and Christine's. Personally I think Raoul and Christine's relationship was a bit...dull is not the right word but...I guess you could say it was to predictable...sure it was sweet but I find the twists of Christine and Erik's relationship much more alluring.

[A_Single_Rose]

I only wanted Christine to end up with Erik because I felt sorry for him and it would be a generally happy ending, etc. But I would never expect Christine to go with him for he does frighten her. Raoul is a much better man morally and he is more stable. Raoul can do so much more for Christine, give her wealth, a normal life, and his love, of course. If Christine had gone with Erik, we would end up feeling sorry for Christine after a while. That's if Erik would have kept her down there for the rest of their lives.

Erik may have been more exciting/interesting, as has been previously stated, but it only makes for a good story. Life is not always exciting or interesting.

The PTO story is good because it let's our imaginations escape for a bit and travel down the more dangerous path instead of the safer one.

Our hearts say "Erik", while logic - our mind - says "Raoul".

[phantom's_rose]

Erik and Christine forever and ever.

I know this argument has been made about a thousand times, but Raoul only noticed Christine after she got the lead in the play. Erik saw her when she was nothing but a Chorus girl.

Very right Khanum! Very right. I sorta think Raoul was fop-ish (hey, that was one of my TAG words in 5th grade!!!) . I am and will always be an E/C fan. Nothing can ever change my mind. It seems SO right! ;) But that is my opinion, and everyone has one, and for that I make no apologies for my thoughts! Sorry. Please don't hate me. :(

[masquerading rose]

KT,

Umm.... Raoul and Christine were in love since they were young. Yes, it is possible to find love that young, real, true, faithful, live-long love. I heart ya, KT, but sometimes..... sometimes you can be a LITTLE too mental. Sorry.

phantom's_rose- Yeah. It's so right if you think having a stalker is romantic. Oh, yes. I have always wanted my own personal stalker living in my mirror. *sarcasm*. I agree whole-heartedly with Zelda. Erik is a stalker. Christine wasn't safe with him. If you didn't feel safe with a boyfriend, you should really leave them. And that's what Christine did. Erik really would have no problem killing her if he got mad enough (which would be very easy for him to reach). It's easy for people to ship E/C because Erik is the main character and you feel bad for him. Believe it or not, I was there once too.

And Raoul was amazing. He loved Christine with all he has (which is a lot) and more. With all his heart (which is big). He would willingly give up his life for her. He would do ANYTHING for her. And he would never hurt her physcially, mentally, emotionally, not even accidently. Raoul loved her since he was little. Erik stalked Christine since she was little.

Raoul and Christine FOREVER and ALWAYS!!!

[Hidden Away]

I think that Raoul and Christine are more reality wise, but a wonderful almost happening was Erik and Christine, but I think that Erik needs someone that appreciates him better for everything of him. Chrsitine would hav ebeen frightened of him for the rest of their lives.

MRose--AWWW I didn't know you had a bf...I never remember to ask people if they do or not. I'm happy for you all that do! Anyways, that's pretty protective of his to be like Raoul, I think that's sweet of him.

Phantom's_Rose I think that Erik and Chrsitine are nicely paired but not ment for life. They don't exactly love each other. I see Erik's love for Christine as a quick, obsession-like passion. That's not forever in my book. Love is the first thing in my book, they don't exactly have that. Even though I can see that Christine might have wished to be with Erik--for almost every girl wants mystery in a forever love. Looking back to the part at the end of the movie (but only the movie!) she looked back and sang almost to him.

Book wise in the picture of Christine being kissed by Erik on the forehead she looked as if she would rather die! I don't really take that into any words of love or passion.

Musical, Christine didn't exactly look back (the theaterical persective was with the boat at the back and the lair's gate more placed down stage as their was space up stage for the 'gondola')

So love wise Christine/Raoul. Most passionate moments is Chrsitine/Erik. Love and passion may or may not stay forever. Apparently Christine and Erik's wasnt forever.

[angelgirl]

I still ship E/C and probably always will, but after reading these other posts, I'm starting to see the R/C point of view, too. Since she chose Raoul, she chose the safe-happy-rainbows and smiles-boring life.

So Christine/Phantom all the way for me!
A.G.

[darcimkire]

E/C forever...

Erik's love, for me, is greater than Raoul...

[Madame le Courayer]

I think those that are speaking of "stalkers" are putting too much of a twentieth century spin on a gothic Victorian story. No, I'm not excusing Erik's deceitful behavior, but come on girls, let's view it in light of when it was written.
After all we know that slavery was wrong but that doesn't stop us from admiring Scarlett O'Hara's pluck. And we know that adultery is wrong but that doesn't stop us from sympathizing with Madame Bovary's plight.
What do all these stories have in common? They were all set (though perhaps not all written) in the nineteenth century. I think it's futile to pigeon-hole Erik's behavior when, after all, he's not even of our time and the circumstances were quite unusual. He didn't one day decide to start "stalking" this pretty singer...remember, he was her teacher.

[IamErik771]

Hannah, I must say that's a really good point, and one I've never really thought about before. Many things that are considered wrong now were perfectly acceptable in the not-too-distant past, and vice-versa.

Of course, things like murder and kidnapping have pretty much always been considered wrong, but we also need to remember that Erik was operating from a totally different morality (or lack thereof) than what even people of the nineteenth century were used to. I believe he truly didn't know right from wrong and couldn't tell whether his own actions were motivated by selfish desires or not. I think he personally believed that not only did he need Christine for himself, but that he was right for her as well. Could that be considered pride or hubris? Perhaps, but it was all he'd ever known.

I don't really consider myself a defender of one character over the others, but I do sympathize with Erik quite a lot. Plus, I've never been one to emphasize "normalcy" or "safety" in fictional relationships. They're nonexistent enough in real life, after all! XD