Has Erik had a previous infatuation before Christine?

[queen]

What d'you guys think?I think yes.......erik's whole behaviour hints at that and read Susan Kay's book if you don't believe me :D

[northangel27]

It depends on what you mean by "relationship". If you are talking about a romantic relationship between two people, with mutual feelings, and giving and taking on both sides, then I would have to say no, absolutely not.

Now, in saying that I am not completely eliminating the possiblity that Erik may have had feelings for another woman in the past, or that another woman may have had feelings for him, I just think that those former situations could not be considered a relationship, as they would have been one sided. I think that by looking at the situation with Christine, it is quite clear how dangerous Erik's love could be, as it tends to border on obsession. Surely if he had been in love before it must have led to much pain and tragedy. After all, this is a man whose own mother refused to even look at his face, a man who had no conception of what love was; what it was to recieve, or to give.

Even in Kay's book, Erik was never in a real "relationship" with another woman. He had feelings for Luciana, and she was facinated by and enamoured of him, but there was no realy relationship there, nor any love. The Khanum lusted after him, but he was blind to this fact.

All in all, I feel that there is little to no proof, in any version of the story that Erik was ever in a relationship with a woman before Christine (and I even question whether the circumstances with Christine could actually have been called a "relationship"). I just feel that he was too emotionally raw, and unstable to ever have been in what could have been classified as a real relationship. Poor Erik.

[queen]

Well....I did mean romantic relationship,for one

[ErikClaudin]

Erik/Christine relationship was not an actual relationship. In many phan phics I've read, the authors add new relationships. He did not have an actual mutual one, I do not believe. I mean, the khanum was sadistic and Luciana was a *****, so... No, not in my opinion, but, maybe.

[MystMoonstruck]

After multiple viewings of the film musical, I wonder if there might not be something between Erik and his rescuer. Watch Madame Giry's responses involving Erik. Whether this is a one-sided attraction or not, I can't say. But, this was a secret shared for decades by these two people.

The next time you watch the film, and I'm sure you will, focus on Madame Giry.

[queen]

Yeah,I've thought about her. It's something to wonder of...I mean,the way Mdm.Giry talks of the Phantom!
But you, being one of those philosopher type people I think and think of different,well,anwsers,I guess.
And I'll tell you one of the things I had thought of when I saw Erik touch christine that night in his lair'' Oh! If he was as sad and lonely and all that how could he touch her like that? Wouldn't he be afraid that chrstine would be repulsed?''
And then I wondered if men can handle not like,y'know and stuff.
I'll just shut up now

[MystMoonstruck]

You do have a point. Erik seems quite knowledgeable in the way he caresses and embraces Christine. Would a man without experience--ahem--fondle so skillfully if he didn't have experience?

Well, he does have the lifesize Christine doll. EEEWWWW!

[Cara]

I think any sort of romantic relationship is a no because at the end of Leroux's book he tell Nadir about how good it was to finaly kiss someone cause he never had before, not even his mother let him kiss her.

[queen]

Originally posted by MystMoonstruck
You do have a point. Erik seems quite knowledgeable in the way he caresses and embraces Christine. Would a man without experience--ahem--fondle so skillfully if he didn't have experience?

Well, he does have the lifesize Christine doll. EEEWWWW!

LOL!

[You read my mind,my dear!;) ]:D

My mum always said that men were predators. That they can't survive without.....dfhshfsa.....ahem. My mum said this while a certain person called my Dad was in the room. Quelle horreur!

[MaskedRose]

Honestly, he wouldn't. I mean he travled with the gypsies a lot. He wouldn't have because no one would really want him and he didnt realize that until he found christine. Because no one ever wanted to really be with him. But even though Christine chose Raoul, he could still tell that she wanted to be with him, but she also knew that it would be a more akward relationship. Also knowing Erik, he wouldn't know what love is. The only love he had before Christine was probably his music and Sasha, his dog.

[queen]

But you know French men. And maybe his hunger for love drove him to do bad things like rape. In Leroux he always went to the Bolougne,and even took Christine with him [The Bois de Boulogne is a famous place for prostitutes and suchlike]

[YoungGiry]

I don't think so, personally. Both in the book and musical - though in different ways in each - it is emphasized that Erik has difficulty interacting normally with other people. In my opinion, his behavior as regards Christine shows quite clearly that he doesn't know how to interact romantically with people, even less than he knows how to interact with them in other senses.

In response to Clemence's last post: I'm not ruling out the possibility that he had sex with prostitutes or other women. But I don't think it's very likely that he had any sort of lasting relationship with them.

[PhAnToMeSs07]

A topic such as this can go in so many different directions.



Northangel27: I think that by looking at the situation with Christine, it is quite clear how dangerous Erik's love could be, as it tends to border on obsession. Surely if he had been in love before it must have led to much pain and tragedy. After all, this is a man whose own mother refused to even look at his face, a man who had no conception of what love was; what it was to receive, or to give.

The fact that his love bordered on the line of obsession further proves that he had never previously been in a romantic relationship. He knew no love therefore he didn't know how to show it. Erik had love confused with obsession. As intelligent as he was, he still remained a man and love baffles every human at some point and time. All the people he befriended, or people who befriended him, in Kay's novel were men: Nadir, Giovanni, Charles Garnier, Jules Bernard...He never dared to pursue anything with a woman although he had chances. There was the girl in Persia that the shah sent him as a token of appreciation. Erik could have had her but he didn't. Erik could have had the Khanum if he wanted to for God's sake but he didn't. And Luciana, need I even discuss her. ARGH! Anyways, there have been times when I thought maybe Erik went to a prostitute but then I read Kay's Phantom. Erik clearly stated in Kay's novel that he had done many things wrong in life but raping a woman was something he could not bring himself to do. He could have raped Christine that one night when she wore the wedding dress but he made her bolt her doors and he hid from her. Instead, he raped her with music.

Even in ALW's Phantom, I do not see any evidence that Erik has had previous relationships. Madame Giry has crossed my mind a few times but I think Erik and her relationship is more that of friends. She saved him when no one else cared; therefore, he will always be greatful for her kind act. In the broadway and 2004 movie, a Persian doesn't exist therefore we are lead to believe Giry is the only friend he has. I think that is strictly what she is.

On the subject of: How did he know what to do when he had Christine in his lair?

I have two theories:

One, he used his music to put Christine in a trance and in response, I believe he brought himself under the spell without meaning to. In the books, we are lead to believe he would never even touch a woman out of fear, so you would think he wouldn't touch Christine, right? Well, if he had entranced himself, then he would do things he wouldn't normally do just as his victims did when he hypnotized them; thus bringing him to touch and carress her.

Two, if he was aware that he was touching her that way, then I believe he was purely acting on instinct and hoping he got it right just like a normal person does when they try something like that for the first time. Plus, Erik was a very intelligent man who studied many things. It said he had many books, don't you think some of them may have been on.....ahem....certain subjects he had never experienced before, LOL.

I once again agree with Northangel27 on the Christine relationship. I don't believe it was a real relationship for the same reasons stated. I'll state what has been proclaimed many times: Poor Erik.....

[phantomoutcast]

I have never seen Erik in a previous relationship in any version. Although the 1980's movie did suggest that he used prostitutes, which isn't a completely out of the question. But then again, in that same movie, Carlotta was killed during the Masquerade. It really depends on the interpretation.

Do I think that he had previous relationships? A huge, flat out no. He is a genius in many ways, but he never really figured out how to have a loving, healthy relationship. Kay's book best describes why he turned out so unloved, we could blame the mother. She feared him and couldn't stand to be with him, it's not exactly the best mother-son bond.

I agree with the people who said that the relationship he had with Christine wasn't a real one, but to Erik, that's all he had ever known, so he didn't know that it was wrong until the final scene in the lair after the kiss. One kiss, and the spell was broken.

[masquerading rose]

In Kay, I believe Erik had prostitutes (correct me if I'm wrong) and he also had a little crush on Luciana until he blamed himself for her death and ranaway.

And anyways, I don't really call Erik/Christine a relationship. I call it a mistake, but that's just me...

[The Countess]

In Kay, I believe Erik had prostitutes (correct me if I'm wrong)

No, he said that he didn't bother with them because he couldn't bare to have his money turned away. Sad really.