Gaston Leroux's Book [Archive] - The Phantom's Opera

The Khanum

04-09-2005, 03:40 PM

I thought it was okay...I know, I should love it because it's the original, it's the one that started it all. But Erik just seemed too...pathetic, I guess. Not human enough...like Christine's love for him was more like pitiful affection, not true love.

I don't know if I should post this here, but the Kay book was...absolutely incredible. Definitely my favorite book of all times...I cry every time I read it. The way she describes Erik and his past, with his mother and Nadir and Giovanni and the gypsies...it's kind of like this little saying I heard once:

"Leroux gave the Phantom life,
Kay gave the Phantom a soul,
Webber gave the Phantom a voice,
but I gave the Phantom love!"

It's true...Kay made Erik human, someone you could cry over, someone you could fall in love with...as I did. :) In that book, Erik is my hero (even though he is a murderer and drug addict...yes, Erik IS a drug addict in the Kay novel). If you haven't read it, try you're very hardest to find it. But since it's out of print, I'll give the link to the online version (where somebody actually took the time to type out a 400 page novel...)

Susan Kay's PHANTOM (http://www.freewebs.com/unitedminority/SUSAN%20KAY.txt)

It takes a while to load...just be patient! ;)

~The_Phantom_is_Sexy

cinty

04-10-2005, 07:45 AM

Oh thankyou for that link! I have been desperately wanting to read that! Well, when I have time, I will try and go read it.

The Khanum

04-13-2005, 04:03 AM

Glad to be of service! It is truly an inspirational piece of work. Let me know what you think of it!

~The_Phantom_is_Sexy

Opera Ghost

04-16-2005, 05:23 PM

I've read a book name "The Phantom Of The Opera" but as I didn't realise there are different versions of the book I didn't note the authors name. It was a really good book, I enjoyed it greatly. Erik was portrayed as a monsterm, who although he was desribed as a living corpse, was still kind and loving towards Christine although very tricky and somewhat cruel to others (such as Raoul) but okayish towards the Persian. I don't know who the author was.. maybe one of you could tell me? There was stuff about a frog & and a grasshopper, and a forest of death, a torture room, lots about the lake, and it also mentioned a rat hunter & mentioned several times the exact place where Buquets body was found (between the sets somewhere..can't remember) and also Caeser was mentioned - the grey horse that was taken by Erik.

The Khanum

04-16-2005, 08:27 PM

That was Gaston Leroux...he wrote the original. It was written first in French (being that is Leroux's nationality), but has been translated into English. Susan Kay wrote an extention to the novel (in English) in 1991, and it details Erik's entire life, from birth and his life with his mother Madeleine to his encounter with the gypsies to his apprenticeship to Giovanni to his adventures in Persia with his first (and only) friend, Nadir, and finally to Paris, where he builds the Opera Garnier/Opera Populaire and meets Christine.

Sorry...that explanation was kind of long, but I am fairly obsessed with that book. Okay, forget the "fairly" part, I eat, drink, sleep, OBSESS UNHEALTHILY about Kay's PHANTOM. :mask: Yay for the mask! Woot-woot! I'd definitely recommend using that link I provided up there ^.

There's also another version, "Phantom of Manhattan"...but most phans don't consider it an actual version, persay...

~The_Phantom_is_Sexy

cinty

04-17-2005, 05:31 AM

I still haven't read it, haven't had time, but will as soon as I can! It sounds great!

IamErik771

05-02-2005, 02:16 AM

ALW's musical (particularly the OLC recordings) was my first encounter with POTO. After hearing the music, I became curious about the many other versions of the story. I went to the school library and checked out The Complete Phantom of the Opera, and learned many things. 1) The story was based on a real opera house, 2) There were several film versions, and 3) The origin of the legend was a novel by Gaston Leroux. I knew instantly that I would have to find it and read it the first chance I had. To my delight, I found it in the school library, read it in 2 days, and checked it out endlessly after that until I finally bought my own copy. I absolutely love it because it helped me to understand the story and characters a lot more. I love the way Leroux made the story seem real, as if he were a journalist investigating actual events. (He was once a journalist, so he knew all about how to do that.) It took me a while to accept that Christine was blonde, Erik had a black mask, Mme. Giry was not the ballet mistress, and the managers had different names, but I loved the novel and think there should be a film that is as close to the source material as possible. :mask:

cinty

05-04-2005, 06:48 AM

OG the version of Phantom you read was the one by Leroux, as someone above said. That is the version the musical is based on. I have an old program of the stage show which someone gave me and it had all sorts of interviews with ALW, Charles Hart, Cameron Mackintosh etc, who all explained how it was based on the novel by Leroux. It's interesting, about how it is based on it and yet alot of it is relaly quite different....

IamErik771

05-06-2005, 03:09 AM

Susan Kay's PHANTOM (http://www.freewebs.com/unitedminority/SUSAN%20KAY.txt)

It takes a while to load...just be patient! ;)

~The_Phantom_is_Sexy

:eek: Oh my God... THANK YOU!!! I have been searching for a copy since I first found out about it. I had read an online summary, but that's nowhere near the same as reading the real thing. I cannot thank you enough for posting this!

Now, how in the world did I miss that last time I visited here?

kashmir

05-07-2005, 06:56 PM

Now I really want to read Kay's Phantom. Sucks that it's out of print! Thanks for the link The_Phantom_is_Sexy!

I always find it interesting how the Persian is such a large role in the book, yet in the musical he's not even in it. Madame Giry has mostly taken the place of him for the musical...which I sort of take as a good decision, even though the Persian is a great character. Also interesting how Raoul is much more of a wimp in Leroux's novel compared to the musical. I definitely like him better as the hero vs. the young, wimpy boy.

The Khanum

05-07-2005, 10:16 PM

I actually have respect for Raoul in Kay's novel... I don't want to give away the ending, but if you're an E/C shipper, you will find him much less...foppish, I suppose. Kay's Phantom is the ultimate in E/C fan work. And even if you like Raoul, I think you'll still be happy with the ending.

There should probably be another thread on Kay's Phantom...I'll start that up right now.

~The_Phantom_is_Sexy

The Phantom

05-09-2005, 03:28 AM

The actual truth to things James is that the novel started it all and Andrew Lloyd Webber took that and made a version of it. Christine was original blonde and Meg Giry had pitch black hair, and was quite ugly from what the book said or something like that. I had a hard time adjusted to the novel's differences as well, like Raoul being so naiive over what was truly going on with Christine's various encounters and rendevous with the Phantom.

Always_Erik_Fan

05-13-2005, 04:48 AM

I bought this book sometime following Christmas '04 and LOVED it! Then, my copy got packed away and when I finally got to see the film this previous April, I desperately wanted to re-read it, so I bought it on Ebay. I read it in one day, and I love it!

The only thing I didn't really care for was that Erik was in it so little... The first time you get to actually hear him interact with Christine is very near the end of the book! But other than that, I thought the book was amazing and still the best one out there! (And I'm currently reading Phantom... LOVE IT!)

One of my pet peeves with ALW is that on the DVD he said, "The book was quite horribly written..." That made me very angry, as it is very well-written! (My opinion only, of course)

Thanks for listening to my rant! --Manda

The Phantom

05-14-2005, 06:13 PM

I missed that part on the DVD when he said that the book was horribly written . . . I remember the part where he said that the book was complex, and you didn't really know what was going on, with the mystery of it. I'm going to have to re-watch the features.

One problem I read was that Leroux loved to use run-on sentences. Some of the lines in the text went on and on, lol.

Jacqueline Rasmussen

05-14-2005, 07:12 PM

Actually, as a grammar-fanatic, I have to say, your sentence is not a run-on unless it is improperly punctuated. Sometimes, a sentence can be 500 words in and of itself if you write it right.

On another note, I haven't gotten to read the book yet, the local bookstore ordered it for me (along with the Hitchhiker's Guide) and I should be getting it within a week or so.

BlondeAngel

05-15-2005, 10:12 AM

I read Kay's novel first, and i just finished Leroux's one ... love em both, but I have 2 say that I prefere Kay's one ...

The Phantom

05-18-2005, 05:58 AM

I've read about half of Gaston Leroux's novel, and I haven't even touched a copy of Susan Kay's. I want to finish this one first before I move to others... hopefully. I haven't touched the book in a few weeks. :(

IamErik771

05-19-2005, 03:11 AM

At home, I have the Signet Classics version, with an intro by Dr. John L. Flynn. I thought most of it made sense, but some of the dialogue was poorly translated. I thought Dr. Flynn's introduction did a very good job of summarizing all the different incarnations POTO has gone through over the decades. Does anyone know of any English versions that are translated better? I can't read or speak French. :)

The Phantom

05-19-2005, 09:20 PM

I'm a beginning novice when it comes to reading French and speaking it, just taking my first French class in high school this semester. I'd have to stick with the English versions if I wanted to get anything read properly, lol. When I'm fluent, I'll make sure to attempt to read Phantom in its original language to see the difference. :)

I hate it when decent books get butched by translators. Some famous books were translated by people who barely could read and write their own language, let alone translate. :(

Reza Khan

06-06-2005, 03:28 AM

I would agree with DarkGlass. It might just be the translation, but the whole book was, for lack of a better word, boring. The characters were horribly stoic and shallow.

I read the book because I wanted to see what Andrew Lloyd Webber found so inspiring, but it left me thinking he was a little cracked.

I much prefer Kay's version of the story.

Elizabeth

Countess Cain

06-10-2005, 12:59 AM

I'm rereading it now... I'm on chapter 16 or so.

The first time I read it, I was at school, and kept being distracted by people asking me questions. This time, however, I've had total peace and quiet, which really made a major difference.

I didn't like it the first time. In fact, I despised it. I'm not sure if this was the translation's fault or whatever, but I almost wanted to stop reading it. I respected it as the 'original', but that's about it.

But I decided to give it another chance a few weeks ago, buying another translation of it at Books-a-Million.

I'm fond of it now, to say the least. I noticed things I didn't the first time, that I now think should have been extremely obvious. Sure, it's certainly not the best book ever, but it's worthy of people's respect. It's way more enjoyable than 'The Phantom of Manhattan', that's for sure.

Christine Daaé

06-10-2005, 06:35 PM

I adore the original. I've read all the different translations except Bair. See how obsessive I am?

Let's see, the original translation I liked, but he left so much out! Bair and Wolf are more complete, but Lofficier is the best of all. Unfortunately, the Lofficiers tried to change "grasshopper" to "frog" concerning the "boxes of life and death". I'm a purist, so . . . but I loved it the best anyway.

~ Zelda de le FantÃ´me

Why So Silent

06-11-2005, 02:54 AM

I actually found the book (beats me by what translator) in my grandfather's library a few days after seeing the movie. I was extatic to say the least, so it shouldn't be a surprise that I finished it the next day.

I think Leroux is actually quite a good writer, maybe its my edition, but many parts of it made me love it: the fact that he wrote it as if he were a reporter, like it really happened (now wouldn't that be cool?) The fact that Erik doesn't come out that much didn't really bother me, seeing as it was in Raoul's point of view (more or less) and it wouldn't have actually said anything "good" about the Phantom. I liked it so much that I was actually kinda mad about the fact that ALW changed/left out some parts, but ::sigh:: I guess you're kinda limited when you're acting it out on stage.

Oh, I just checked my edition, it was translated by Bair. Take that Zelda :P just kidding. Its the only edition I've read. Anyway, I loved the book, I should read it again...oh, and I've yet to read Kay's novel, though I'm looking for the book. I read in some other post that it was out of print? But I went on borders.com and they had it for order, so I'm not sure if I misunderstood or what.
Toodles
Why So Silent

The Khanum

06-11-2005, 04:41 PM

Yeah, I really should read it again, too...I fear I've only done so twice, and I find it that the more you read a book, the more you uncover. For example, I've read Kay's Phantom about thirty times, and each time I come up with a subplot or a hidden symbol or a quote that I missed while reading before.

I guess I should go snatch Leroux from my cousin once more... ::Scurries away::

~Erik is my Hero

Countess Cain

06-11-2005, 09:14 PM

I feel kind of ignorant asking this question... But who was the translator for the Signet Classics version? I've seen that one and Bair's, but the name for the other is just coming up a blank...

Night feather

06-11-2005, 11:33 PM

I thought Gaston Leroux's book was okay, but Kay's was ten times better.

Leroux's novel took a long time to get going and get interesting, there were a lot of the tedious long criminal searching things, okay it's natural since it is a crime book.

But come on man, the character's were thin, you don't get far enough insight in Erik to understand why he act's like he does..

Some aspexts of the book are good, but other parts are very boring, and Raoul is absoloutely unberably pure hearted...

Leroux was limited because of the genre he wrote in, Kay had the oportunity to explore the characters, and they becoem a lot more interesting and captivating as you go into depths with them..

I don't liek Leroux's Erik, I hardly felt any pity for him..

Overall it was good, but I'd much rather read Susan Kay's...

Why So Silent

06-12-2005, 02:47 AM

Originally posted by Night feather
I don't liek Leroux's Erik, I hardly felt any pity for him..

Not to disagree, but I think the whole point in Leroux's book was to not feel pity for the Phantom, just to kinda understand the man behind the mask.

Besides, I don't think Erik would like you to pity him :D Sorry, I haven't even read Kay's novel and I'm defending Leroux. ::shrug::

Toodles
Why So Silent

Night feather

06-12-2005, 10:06 AM

Well you are right about that.... Erik hates pity....

But I didn't understand the man behind the mask, he simply acted like nothing more than a lunatic...

I've read both novel's and I liked Kay's SO much more, she's a far more talented writer than Leroux was...

Countess Cain

06-12-2005, 02:15 PM

As much as I loved 'Phantom', I do think Leroux deserves some credit. I mean, he did create Erik to begin with.

I do wish he would have written a chapter from his POV, though. That would have been interesting....

Why So Silent

06-13-2005, 02:33 AM

A chapter from Erik's POV would have been REALLY cool, especially since I guess every author thinks differently about what's going on through their character's minds.

And, you're right, Night Feather, Leroux didn't tell you much about Erik's motivation...what I meant by "the man behind the mask" was about his past, like what lead up to him being beneath the opera house, not exactly what was running through his mind. Sorry if that was confusing :tongue:

cinty

06-17-2005, 02:05 AM

Yes, I do have to credit Leroux for writing the original story. If it wasn't for him, we woudn't have any PotO at all! *gaps* It is a good book, but I think I must have one of the awful translations.
Still, all hail Leroux for giving us Erik to love! :)

phantomphreak

06-24-2005, 06:25 PM

I really liked it. The first time I read it though I was a little confused by the beginning. Now I've read it twice and it's one of my favorite books. I really like the style that Leroux wrote it in. The Journalism point of view is really cool. I think it is almost like reading a mystery, but not quite. I also like how he has little sections that are the point of view of the managers and of the Persian. I wish ALW would have kept Christines hair blonde.

Reza Khan

06-25-2005, 05:13 PM

I think I would have like Leroux's novel more if he would have included some background info on Erik. I was completely confused when I read it the first time about who 'The Persian' was and how in the blazes Erik knew him. I finally understood by reading Kay's novel, so I think I should read Leroux's again. Maybe I'll appreciate it more.

Yep, I'm done rambling for now...

Elizabeth

The_Persian

06-25-2005, 05:52 PM

Wheni first started to read this book, i was dissapointed, but that was only because it didnt follow the exact plot of the musical. I was so upset that i had to put it down. However, i came back to it a week later and decided to try again. Now i LOVE IT!! i prefer it to ALW adaptation, and what is really cool is it's the "actual" story! well, i believe it, at any rate.

YoungGiry

06-25-2005, 09:12 PM

I love it. So many of the details, little things in there, I love. Like the grasshopper and the scorpian, the torture chamber, the little things Madame Giry says, the night at the graveyard...They all make it a so much more complete story.

I use the Wolf translation, in the annotated edition. I have another edition, which I didn't like too much, but I can't remember the translator.

Night feather

06-26-2005, 12:49 AM

To quote Andrew Lloyd Webber on the subject of the book, and I agree with that.

"I thought it was a good plot, but pretty badly written" (or somethign very much like it)

It's very confusing, everything is just mixed together and it dosn't really makes sense.

Good parts and aspects, but it jsut lacks so much in my opinion.

Reza Khan

06-28-2005, 09:06 PM

Originally posted by Night feather
"I thought it was a good plot, but pretty badly written" (or somethign very much like it)
I officially love ALW even more after hearing that quote. I couldn't agree any more. :)

Elizabeth

Christine Daaé

06-28-2005, 09:18 PM

Well, I suppose it's all a matter of opinion. Gaston Leroux, to me, is a great author, and ALW didn't rise in my book at all after he said that. I don't think less of him, either, but not more of him.

I was totally absorbed in the book. Maybe it's just me . . . ?

~ Zelda de le FantÃ´me

Countess Cain

06-28-2005, 10:16 PM

Have you only read it once? I think I said this before, but I found that reading it again made it a more enjoyable read. You might also have a bad translation...

I actually liked his writing style. It might take a while to get used to for some, but still. It's... 'Original', I guess you could say. Like a glass of cold water.

The_Persian

06-28-2005, 11:26 PM

Originally written by Zelda de la PhantomWell, I suppose it's all a matter of opinion. Gaston Leroux, to me, is a great author, and ALW didn't rise in my book at all after he said that. I don't think less of him, either, but not more of him.

I was totally absorbed in the book. Maybe it's just me . . . ?

Nah uh! Not just you... i fell the exact same way! I am re-reading it for the billionth time, and i love it.

I also think the same way about what ALW said. It didnt upset me, but it didnt make me respect him any more either. I was surprised more then anything.

Reza Khan

07-01-2005, 04:34 AM

Originally posted by Sadako Kurosawa
Have you only read it once? I think I said this before, but I found that reading it again made it a more enjoyable read. You might also have a bad translation...
Hmm, maybe that's my problem. I've only read it once, but I am going back for a second time through. I also checked out a different copy. I have no idea if it's a different translation or not, but maybe I'll like it better.

Elizabeth

The_Persian

07-01-2005, 03:35 PM

I would defenitly read it again if i where you, i am reading it now for my 3rd time... and i love it even more now. It s a complicated book, so the more you understand it... the more you enjoy it! I found the chapter 'Safety Pin again' particulerly confusing the first time I read it...

IamErik771

07-01-2005, 05:03 PM

Yes, I also recommend reading it a second time. When I first read it, I hardly understood it at all. By the second or third time, though, everything started to make sense. Especially after I read those character analysis essays on PhantomoftheOpera.Info (http://www.phantomoftheopera.info). ;)

Reza Khan

07-01-2005, 10:45 PM

Indeed. It's already seeming better, and I'm only about a third of the way finished right now. I think it helped to read Kay's "Phantom" as well, since she explains a lot of the backstory that Leroux lacks in his novel.

Elizabeth

YoungGiry

07-03-2005, 08:47 PM

I just read it again (I'm not sure if this is the second or third time) and I love it twice as much as I did the first time! Not that I didn't love it before, but now it just is even more wonderful. Everything about it is perfect, in my opinion.

CÃ©cile Annelure

07-13-2005, 06:19 PM

I've only read the original. It could've been better, but it's still Phantom, and still rocks. The differences in the characters' appearances really made me wonder for awhile. Gerry didn't exactly look a corpse, did he?

But now I'm itching to read the Kay version. Leroux left alot of description out, and Kay's Phantom sounds awesome! Thanks for the link!

Night feather

07-13-2005, 06:21 PM

I've only read it ones, but I don't think that it is a bad translation, normally the danish translations are quite good.

But maybe I shoudl read it again, when I get the time, I've got thousands of other books on my waiting list.

joplin4

07-27-2005, 08:15 PM

I remember reading this around Halloween one year. From the first page to the last, I couldn't put it down. It was definitely a thriller. My heart pounded in certain spots. Especially when Christine and Raoul were on the roof of the opera house with the phantom. I believe the phantom was there. I was afraid during that whole chapter that he would come out and do something terrible like kill Raoul or kidnap Christine. But you did come to sympathize with Erik. I loved the book!

Amaranta

07-30-2005, 05:28 PM

I think many people have a bad translation. I can't see what else it could be.

I'm a French speaker, and I read Le FantÃ´me de l'OpÃ©ra when I was twelve. I immediately fell in love with it - with him, even if here this word sounds out of place. To me it will remain the one and only canon. It drives me mad when people say it's badly written; I'd like to know how can you judge an author's style if you've only read a translation ?

I also love the fact that some things are left for you to imagine. I've just read Kay's novel (bought it in English for 50 cents in some bookshop in Brussels three days ago, the guy had no idea what he was selling). It's good, and it's probably what many people want to read (I have to admit that she's been quite true to the spirit of Leroux's book) - but it's not nearly as brilliant as Leroux's. He invented it. God, the man's invented a myth! While, ultimately, Kay's Phantom is some very, very good piece of fanfiction (which is by no means a bad thing, myths are alive because they are told and retold all the time.)

The love story is, in my opinion, much more subtle here. I always cry at some point; I didn't cry while reading Phantom. Maybe it's too modern for me. Leroux's book has some kind of classical power, of elegance, and you actually get to read between the lines. Kay doesn't really has a French sensibility, in my opinion, especially when it comes to the descriptions ; it's difficult to explain, though. Of course I enjoyed her novel - but you just can't compare it to Leroux's FantÃ´me.

Kay seems to have some kind of problem with the moral issues, as if she wanted to justify his acts, or make him look less "evil", which annoys me. This story is above morals, I think the whole point is here. We almost pity Erik - but he doesn't want to be pitied! That's what makes his love so powerful, so fascinating - so irresistible. He's a genius, but he isn't a good man. He doesn't have that sex-appeal, either. He is more than ugly: he is a living corpse. He even smells of death. I remeber seeing the movie and thinking "but who would have a problem with Gerry having the huge sunburn of doom?" It's totally beside the point. I still liked the movie, as kitschy as it was. (It has to be the worse decoration I've ever seen. Whoever designed it needs to be treated for ultime bad taste. Anyway.)

Le MystÃ¨re de la Chambre Jaune and Le Parfum de la Dame en Noir are much more well-known that the FantÃ´me, for some reason (I actually studied them at school). Larsan's character is pretty fascinating too.]

Sorry for the length.

Christine Daaé

07-30-2005, 07:28 PM

Thank you, Amaranta! I've only read every English translation except Bair -- my favorite is the Lofficier, though. I love Phantom, too, but it's just not the canon I fell in love with. I fell in love with Gaston Leroux's book, and it will always be my first POTO love -- not any musical, not any other book, and certainly no movie.

~ Zelda de le FantÃ´me

YoungGiry

08-01-2005, 05:10 AM

It's heartening to hear so many people say good things about the original. There should be a society for people who like the book best. Or is there already?

Countess Cain

08-02-2005, 11:14 PM

There should be a society for people who like the book best.

Well, I could try making a sig thing like the Kay fans have. What do you all think?

And what should our phrase be, if we do do that? 'Canon Fans do It Right?' or something? (I suck at stuff like that.)

phantoms_nemo

08-05-2005, 12:26 AM

Im kinda getting a bit confused with the plot. Im having a hard time following and Im on the 13th or 14th chapter. Otherwise, the book is a good read so far.

Wishing

08-05-2005, 02:01 AM

I really liked this book, and I agree it takes more then one time reading it to understand it completely. I can see where some of the things from the Andrew Lloyd Webber version came in. I'm glad that Andrew Lloyd Webber kept out the "safety pin" part. It would have been weird having a song about that...

YoungGiry

08-06-2005, 12:37 AM

I don't know about our phrase...something simple, and easy to remember...

phantoms_nemo

08-10-2005, 11:51 PM

I was thinking when I was reading my book, Safety Pins? ha they should have made a song about that, It would have been funny somehow. Does any one feel the same way?

YoungGiry

08-11-2005, 04:17 AM

It might have taken attention away from the rest of the story, but it could have been interesting, and rather amusing.

phantoms_nemo

08-14-2005, 11:53 PM

Around the middle of the book I got a bit confused, then it all kinda pieced together. I really liked Lerouxs novel.

Countess Cain

08-15-2005, 10:06 PM

The safety pins part was awesome. But I guess it isn't directly related to the main events... But it showed how Erik was so sneaky.

Black Ribbon

11-04-2005, 11:56 AM

I read it when I was nine, but I really liked it! I kept thinking that the Persian and the Daorgra (sp?) were different people.

Erik

11-08-2005, 04:11 AM

I love the Persian. He's one of my favourite characters.
No, the Persian and Daroga, are the same person :D. Daroga is a persian name for 'policeman', or so I gathered from Kay's Phantom.

Anyways, my favourite part was always The Persian's account of things. I thought that it was the best part of the book, by far. Especially when Erik comes to see him.

Ceridwen

11-08-2005, 02:04 PM

I have bought the book like 4 weeks ago and I loved it!! It was an English translation, from Penguin Popular Classics. I don't know about the translator though. But I thought it was good! It might help that I have read the book first, and afterwards watched the movie. I have not seen the stageshow so I was totally new to it.

I thought the admosphere Leroux created was very very good. It was haunting and it made you wonder. Really it is a story full of your own imagination, it stands or falls on that.

I'm dying to read Kay's Phantom!! The link on the first page of this thread doesn't work anymore. Is there anyone who copied the text or knows about another link?

Ceridwen

sunshine

11-08-2005, 08:14 PM

I loved the book I read it over and over again, I thought that the book was more in depth than the musical and the movie. My favorite part is when the persian explains Erik's past and how he takes Raoul into the depths of the opera.(its a shame they couldnt fit that into the movie)

Erik

03-24-2006, 05:26 AM

I love the part in La Sorelli's dressing room ^_^ I love how she touches the horseshoe to ward off bad luck - I love those old superstitions.

Anywho, I agree. I wasn't happy aobut the lack of Nadir (The Persian) in the movie.

Ceridwen, PM me if you want Kay's Phantom :D

AAW0487

07-01-2006, 02:59 PM

I think everyone should read Gaston Leroux's version at least once, because where would we be if it were not for his genius? We would have no Phantom and no ALW play....::freaks out momentarily:: Yikes! It is not my favorite version ever, but really to understand the play and the books you have to read the first one! I must say that I need to read it again. It's been too long!

Why So Silent

07-01-2006, 05:47 PM

Oooh, Samness, of course EVERYONE loves the Persian! ^__^ I wasn't sad about his absence in the movie because ...ha. I hadn't read the book yet ^_^;;

*high fives Ceridwen* I have that edition! *shimmies*

The part where the Persian narrates the story near the end was also one of my favourite parts ;3 Because since the Persian kinda likes Erik, he's sort of more sympathetic I guess you could say. ...But then again he also tries to appeal to Erik when they're trapped in the torture chamber. He's like Erik's conscience. ^_^

THeFaCeiNTHeMaSK

08-02-2006, 06:52 PM

I just read the book! I thoroughly enjoyed it. It seems like a different story than the movie though. And I loved the persian! Yay! And I bawled through the end of the book. I'm trying to convince my mom to read it, but she didn't like the movie, so it's been kinda hard. But I was amazed at how different the book was from the movie.

ForbiddenRomance

08-09-2006, 04:07 AM

I liked it alot but there were times when I thought I had skipped chapter or two...at times the book made complete sense but then the book would seem to be be thing I couldn't seem to understand...I didn't like how Raoul was in the book. I thought he was a little to well like a sissy.

queen

09-10-2006, 02:12 PM

I love Leroux,though I do think he wasn't the right person to write POTO.It should have been a beautiful flowing story,not a mystery/dectective/love/tragedy/horror story.

Easy Breezy

09-11-2006, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by queen
I love Leroux,though I do think he wasn't the right person to write POTO.It should have been a beautiful flowing story,not a mystery/dectective/love/tragedy/horror story.
I agree, it just doesn't make a good horror novel (very un-scary, haha). It would have made a much better romance story.

Lord Moe

04-11-2007, 01:54 AM

loved it! What a great book.

What do you guys/girls suggest next? I'm probably going to go for Susan Kay's "Phantom". What do you think?

PhAnToMeSs07

04-11-2007, 04:11 AM

Angel's Muse

06-10-2007, 05:53 PM

I do love Leroux. I worship the man, for inventing Erik in the first place, and writing such a wonderful story.

You don't get very much of what Erik thinks during Leroux's novel, though. Only at the end does Erik really come into his own. A lot of it is from Raoul's POV, as well as Christine's. But hey, we don't see as much of Raoul during Kay's book, so it's interesting to see what he's thinking.

Victoria

11-24-2007, 12:25 AM

Leroux is BEAST!

lol I'm sorry I have a brother :D

Anywhoo the real reasons why I love the book have already been stated so I might as well not repeat them. I'll say this though...I loved the book completly and have read it 6 times

death_shadows

12-29-2007, 07:02 AM

i first came in contact with the book a few years back, and i have to say i loved it. it is one of my favorite reads. after i read the book i looked for more things on poto, and soon i began to watch the other films that were made for it. when i saw the preveiws for alw's movie i was over joyed lol. then i went soon after watching alw's version, to see it performed live. it was wonderful. anyway, i loved the book for many reasons. it is a very good read ^_^

Jennifer Linforth

01-05-2008, 11:49 PM

Leroux's novel is one of my favorites. He was a brilliant mystery writer who love to lead the reader by causing him to question his prose. Everything he did was with purpose and detail. He was ardent researcher who pulled his knowledge of journalism and the court system, in addition to political commentary,the mores of the time period and his views on the class system into his work in a seamless manner. It is one of the reasons I studied him and his work for as long as I have.

I believe he is truly one of the literary giants never to be topped!

Mav

death_shadows

01-06-2008, 06:04 AM

yes he was a brilliant writter ^_^

thegrouchypear

01-15-2008, 09:24 PM

Christine Daaé

01-15-2008, 10:38 PM

LeRoux is an amazing writer. When I first read the novel, I thought it was very dry and bland. Turns out I had the dodgy translation.

Went to Amazon.com, got a decent one and fell even more in love with it. Amazing how removing just a couple of paragraphs and a few lines can almost ruin a narative.

Oh, yes. Bair, anyone? I'm currently reading that translation for the first time, and OHMAGEEZ, it's amazing.

Shadow, love, are you paying attention?

[/spammeth]

~ Zelda

thegrouchypear

01-16-2008, 07:37 AM

Oh yes, most definitely. If you loved Leroux's, you will worship Kay's. All the questions Leroux's left unanswered are answered and there is so much more too. I mean, I respect Leroux for being the first person to write the Phantom story. He is the father of all of this but Kay did a phenomenal job at building off of what he did. If you can find a copy, then read it. I couldn't put it down.

See, I despised Kay's novel. It was fine up until we got to where Leroux started. Then it just spiraled into I don't know what. She completely changed a lot of the characters, especially Christine. Leroux made her feisty and independent, where Kay made her even more naive and more than a little annoying.

I haven't read the Bair translation, but I have the Leonard Wolf version and it is beautifully written. There is wonderful descriptive stuff there which isn't in the more common deMattos translation. I'd quote some of it, but unfortunately I've lent out my copy and need to get it back. But it goes into beautiful description of Christine and La Sorelli, and includes a great deal more about Christine's time in Erik's lair. Very good stuff.

ETA: If anyone is wondering, the Penguin Classics version uses the older, crappier translation.

death_shadows

01-16-2008, 11:07 PM

huh oh. XD im so sorry XD. i must have went to another world.....idk....forgot to post here...>_<..... anyways i agree he is an amazeing writter. i fell in love with his book.

DarkGondolier

02-01-2008, 09:09 PM

Let's see... I read the book, loved it, became somewhat of a Leroux purist, and recently got another copy for Christmas. As for the different versions conversation I seem to have walked in on, both my copies are the deMattos translation, unfortunately. I dearly want to find the Bair or Leonard Wolf translation, but haven't a clue where to look. I'm guessing it's not sold in stores, which makes buying it a bit more difficult as I'm not really experienced at buying things online.

Which explains why I have not yet read Susan Kay's novel. I can't seem to find it in any bookstores and I'm not sure where to find it online for the cheapest amount possible. I've heard Amazon is pretty expensive but I don't know where else to look.

Jennifer Linforth

02-02-2008, 01:14 PM

You can find it through the new publisher: Llumina. www.llumina.com.

It is a subisdy publishing house that purchased the rights to Kay's book. The president (I have chatted with her at length regarding elements of Kay and publishing) opened a new imprint Llumina Stars in order to produce Kay's book as a mass market trade paperback again. (Subsidy press books are unable to be in brick and mortar bookstores)

You should be able to get a copy from Llumina without a problem. If you do have a problem, let me know. I will see if I can contact them for you...

Best,
Mav
(as for Wolf's translation, which I highly reccommend--Amazon has a hard time finding that. Look on www.abebooks.com or if you search Amazon's out of print section by DIRECT from that particular book store and bypass Amazon. You will get it in a timely manner and you should have no problems finding it)

death_shadows

02-02-2008, 02:30 PM

i wasn't able to find kay's book either -_-
so i could read it i had to get it from the libaray. its a wonderful read. i hope u get ur hands on it. may i suggest to look at half price books if u have one. i find that they are most wonderful when looking for a book, and the prices are splendid. books in good shape, for a cheap price, its great. lol
as for the Leroux books they are much more easier to get ahold of, exspecially since the ALW movie came out.

phantom

02-02-2008, 02:49 PM

Love it! This is the beginning of phantom, where it all started. The book was read by the producer in Calif. and he did the movie... Gaston gave Erik life, Webber gave Erik music, and Kay gave Erik a soul.....

phantom

02-02-2008, 02:50 PM

phantom

02-02-2008, 02:52 PM

DarkGondolier

02-03-2008, 08:16 PM

I'm planning to hunt down a copy of the original French once I improve my French enough to read it. I can't wait to read the book how it was originally written and be able to interpret it myself.

Hidden Away

02-04-2008, 10:56 PM

I'm planning to hunt down a copy of the original French once I improve my French enough to read it. I can't wait to read the book how it was originally written and be able to interpret it myself.

I couldn't read French (Never had a lesson) if my life depended on it. (my friend Ginny: Even if you had to do it for Erik?) Even if I had to do it for Erik *rolls eyes* *to people reading* she does this every time I say, "Even if my life depended on it! God! (ginny: *ignores what Erika said* Wow, that's always a lot for Erika to say for Erik...hummm) What now? (Ginny: Erika for Erik...that might be a good trade.) Don't you think about it!

death_shadows

02-05-2008, 09:12 PM

lol. im taking french classes next school year. wish me luck on that lol

ChristineJ16

02-05-2008, 10:05 PM

He's a genius, but he isn't a good man. He doesn't have that sex-appeal, either. He is more than ugly: he is a living corpse. He even smells of death.

This is about the only thing I really didn't like about the original novel. Making Erik corpse-like and smelling of death. It's why I like how Susan Kay depicted him instead. It gave him just a little more human-like qualities, but she still made sure the deformity was quite severe. It helped the love triangle seem a little more believable. Other than that, I loved the original novel and yes, I've read it more than once.

rosemasquerader

02-06-2008, 01:11 AM

I loved the book. I'm a total phangirl and I believe Erik actually existed. The book certainly makes it believable. Yet at the same time its mysterious/dark and gothic.

masquerading rose

02-08-2008, 06:33 AM

I love this book. Iknow I said it earlier, but... ya know, I love it.

Never read this book when on sleeping pills. No, no, no, no nonononono. It gets weird and dizzying... but anyways....
I love the line "My heart link me to thee forever and a day" and one of my favorite scenes is when Christine is telling Raoul about when Erik dug her nails into his face and he how he yelled at her... I also love Raoul's childish, never ending devotion to Christine. It's so sweet and the scene where they look for the ring is lovely...

I remember reading the part in which Raoul tells Chrtistine about his leaving to the North Pole. I remember staring at the book, going "The North Pole? The friggin' North Pole? Saaaaayyyy What?"

Christine Daaé

02-08-2008, 07:07 AM

Christina, I know I'm nitpicking, so please forgive me . . . but I would say that Raoul's never-ending devotion to Christine is more child-like than childish. A "child-like" trait or disposition is way more positive than a "childish" one. But that's just my take on it . . . I do agree that at some points, Raoul does become childish rather than simply child-like; I just think the latter is more common, that's all. But to go any further than that would need a move to the Raoul de Chagny thread . . . maybe I'll do that later.

Anyway, so that I don't hijack the thread and hold it hostage . . .

I'm currently reading the Bair translation for the very first time. I've read De Matteos, Wolf, and Lofficier already; but I always got the feeling that the ways they were translated was generally pretty stiff and sometimes confusing. Bair's translation, though . . . ohmageez, I'm in love with it. It's pure poetry, and what other translation has turned the history of Raoul and Christine into a fairytale? It even starts with "Once upon a time"! Because of this version, the story of Raoul and Christine as children is my favorite part of the whole book.

Once I learn enough French, I'm going to get a hold of the original French text of Leroux's book and read through that. Oh, yeah, I'm raising my lit cred. We've got "street cred" and "indie cred" already; now, we have "lit cred". Ooooohhhh, yeeeeeaaaaah.

~ Zelda

IamErik771

02-09-2008, 04:56 AM

W00t! *gets out the Bair!POTO balloons* Congrats, dahling! I also adore Bair's translation above all others -- DeMattos was the first one I read, and I was a bit bugged by some things about it, including the fact that the cover said it was abridged. Still, DeMattos tends to have my favourite covers, so . . .

But anyway, yes, Bair is teh awesome. It's not perfect, but it's pretty durn close. ^_^ Though I admit I've yet to read Lofficier's version.

Jennifer Linforth

02-09-2008, 01:17 PM

I remember reading the part in which Raoul tells Chrtistine about his leaving to the North Pole. I remember staring at the book, going "The North Pole? The friggin' North Pole? Saaaaayyyy What?"

From my research and studies, Leroux is not referencing the North Pole here, when he says the 'northern railway of the world' but an element of mythology. I don't have my notes in front of me, and I would have to do some heavy digging to find that element. Leroux's writing was heavy on the use of themes and ideas taken from various myths, operas, and legends. (Orpheus, Othello, Death and the Maiden, Egyptian mythology and biblical reference.)

If anyone knows anything else about this element--jump in!

Mav

death_shadows

02-11-2008, 11:12 PM

From my research and studies, Leroux is not referencing the North Pole here, when he says the 'northern railway of the world' but an element of mythology. I don't have my notes in front of me, and I would have to do some heavy digging to find that element. Leroux's writing was heavy on the use of themes and ideas taken from various myths, operas, and legends. (Orpheus, Othello, Death and the Maiden, Egyptian mythology and biblical reference.)

If anyone knows anything else about this element--jump in!

Mav

thanks for the info. i thought it was interresting ^_^

DarkGondolier

02-16-2008, 02:39 AM

Yeah, I've heard of some of the myths and legends referenced in the book. Death and the Maiden I think is particularly fitting, Orpheus I can kind of see, but don't think it works as well, and I don't really know much about the others. I thought the mythical references were very interesting, though you do have to dig deep to find some of them. However, I seem to have forgotten the story of Othello. I'm pretty sure I've heard it, but I can't quite remember everything. Does anyone know the myth?

Jennifer Linforth

02-16-2008, 01:27 PM

Death and the Maiden is a major pull in the novel. Orpheus was one of the chief poets of music and the inventor of the lyre. Via his voice he could lure maidens and calm beasts. He was a magician and teacher. He traveled to the underworld upon the death of his wife Eurydice in attempt to charm Hades into allowing her to go free. Hades agreed so long as Orpheus never turned around to look back at the underworld. In his joy in having his love back--he turned around to look at her and she disappeared forever. In many ways this theme is prevelant in Leroux's novel. Orpheus is also is used in reference to the Siren and how his music was one way to resist the lure of a Siren's voice.

Othello references the dark moor of Venice--a work of Shakespeare. A story of jealousy and betrayal. Christine was reminded of Othello by Erik's black mask.

Mav

Christine Daaé

02-16-2008, 08:52 PM

Otello isn't based on a myth, but rather Shakespeare's play Othello. It's really a great play, so if you can ever get your hands on it, you should read it.

Interestingly, there has been some debate over which Otello was referenced in the book, since there were two -- one by Rossini, and one much later by Verdi. The one by Verdi was written in 1885 -- too late for the story -- so the one by Rossini seems much more plausible; however, some people have said that Leroux was writing a story thirty years in the past, so he could have easily thought that Verdi's opera was put on earlier than it was, or something like that.

~ Zelda

DarkGondolier

02-16-2008, 09:14 PM

Oh, okay. No wonder the name sounds familiar. I'm pretty sure I've heard it referenced as one of Shakespeare's plays. I think I'd heard of the operas as well. Yeah, I remember reading about Orpheus when looking up Greek mythology or something and thinking of how it reminded me of POTO.

Ange de Musique

04-11-2008, 08:05 PM

I've read the original version of Gaston Leroux's POTO, and I loved it! For me, the book intrigued me and the 2004 movie officially made me an obsessee. :D One of the things I love about the book is how Leroux intertwines fact with reality, so much so that you get to the end wondering, "Did all that really happen?" I love the details about Erik's glowing eyes, and his voice, and, and, and...:D It's a wonderful book, Gaston Leroux gave Erik life, it is true!

Laura

xXphantomaddictedXx

04-12-2008, 02:40 PM

I just borrowed the book from my college's library on Thursday, and I started to read it last night. I'm about six chapters in, and so far, I'm thoroughly enjoying it. I'd been looking for it all last week, but I didn't find it until this past Thursday. The author has a writing style that pulls you in from the very first page, and I admire him for that. :D

The Countess

04-17-2008, 04:03 AM

I'm glad that you like it xXphantomaddictedXx. After you finish that, you may want to check out Susan Kay's Phantom.

Back on topic, I'm starting to book again. This will be about the eighth time I suppose. But I'm not obsessed or anything :rolleyes:

tiannangel

04-23-2008, 06:33 AM

I've just finished for the 3rd time Gaston's novel, and it somehow bugs me a bit that at the beginning, all the events happen really REALLY fast, and then you get to the final scene where the Persian dictates, everything is seemingly slower...
Has anyone else felt this?

Why So Silent

04-24-2008, 12:43 AM

I really like the way the ending of the book slows down and dedicates whole chapters to Raoul and the Persian's adventures in the underground. Maybe that's just because in every other book/movie/adaptation, these two (or one, when the Persian is totally erased) happens so fast or behind the scenes, while you only see what's going on with the Phantom and Christine. I think it allowed for some good insight on the other side of Erik, the part that most phans try and deny: the maniacal, homicidal, torturous part :D

The Countess

04-27-2008, 04:17 PM

Oh joy! Oh happy day! A very good youtube friend of mine is making a series of Leroux Sims!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoXfOxshATc

It can't wait to see the others!

Madame le Courayer

04-27-2008, 07:02 PM

ChristineJ16

04-27-2008, 07:38 PM

Perhaps we should think about having a celebration of sorts here at the opera on May 16 for Monsieur Leroux's birthday? Maybe it sounds corny but we could post our good wishes just as if he were here. After all he did give the Phantom life.:mask:

Actually, his birthday is May 6th. It's same birthday as my guyfriend. I thought that to be a cool connection when I discovered that. My guyfriend and I met a Phantom convention, we're both Phantom fans and his birthday is the same as Gaston Leroux, the guy who started it all. :D

Erik'sMusic92

05-26-2008, 11:41 PM

i'm reading Leroux's book for th e 2nd time. their is a horse that Erik uses to take Christine to his house (it's underground), but the horse is white. Erik's mask is black, but during the Masked Ball, he is back in his skeleton form as the Masque of the Red Death. u can tell that Erik wants to get Carlotta out of the spotlight so Christine can become diva by the notes that he gives Carlotta. then in Box 5, Madame Giry always gives the ghost the program and a footstool for his lady. the ghost is married, and later marries Christine. towards the end of the book, Erik says,"Yes, she was waiting for me... waiting for me erect and alive, a real, living bride... as she hoped to be saved... (there'z more, but i'm gonna skip to a few parts) [Christine and Erik r crying, 'they' means Christine's tears] They trickled under my mask... they mingled with my tears in my eyes... they flowed between my lips... Listen, daroga, listen to what I did... I tore off my mask so as to not lose one of her tears... and she did not run away... And she did not die!... She remained alive, weeping over me, with me." i think that that is the sadest chapter. i cried when i wuz reading that *_*

The Countess

05-27-2008, 01:18 AM

Yes, that's a very touching part of the novel. I cried as well.

I never really got who "the ghost's" lady was. Was it Erik preparing for Christine or was he just maintaining sanity? 'Twas never explained.

Jennifer Linforth

05-27-2008, 12:54 PM

This is another one of Leroux's trademark plot holes--mention something then drop it. I did and indepth article about this for my blog:

http://jenniferlinforth.blogspot.com/2008/03/on-footstools-and-fans-in-lerouxs.html

The lady could be symbolic of a number of things. Erik's need to manipulate or his need to project a more sane image to those around him. I could be a manifestation of his lonliness or he was just picking fun with Madame Giry. As to if that was a reference to Christine... I think not.

angelgirl

06-21-2008, 04:18 PM

This is one of my favorite novels ever! The 2 things I didn't like about it are: they didn't put Erik in it enough, and Raoul was a complete sissy! I like him better in the musical.
I am on my 3rd time through.
(I only read a chapter on Sundays. I'm going to read Ch.20 tomorrow, I think.)
The scariest part of it for me was when Christine was describing Erik to Raoul.
"And he tore his flesh with my nails. Tore his terrible, dead flesh with my nails!"
That whole description sends a chill up my spine every time I read it. The part that is kind of sad is the last chapter. I cry every time. And my fave chapter is 12, Apollo's Lyre.
A.G.

MaskedMadame

07-19-2008, 02:06 AM

Henri

07-19-2008, 09:34 PM

good blog entry. I think erik just wanted to pretend, maybe imagine christine or someone was with him, so he was not alone.

Also doing for confusing madame giry makes perfect sence

I whole heartedly agree! I finnaly was able to get my hands on the book from the library in my town and read it two times before I had to return it.:D I just have one question though that had been bugging me for a while. Just how did Erik die? In the end it said that Erik seemed ill. Was he just over taken by some kind of disease or illness? Or did he just lost the will to live without Christine? I can't seem to come up with anything other than that.

death_shadows

08-09-2008, 07:49 AM

oh may 6th u say...thats a day after my birthday! ...ill be 18 this year.....i can remember may 6th easy!
and yes he does seem alone so that may be true. poor thing :( i would have gladly loved him...XD

A_Single_Rose

08-09-2008, 08:02 AM

It is never really explained how he died. The romantic guess is that he died of a broken heart. How possible that actually is, I don't know. He might have stopped eating (like he even ate in the first place) and overall just stopped caring for himself. He might have become ill from not taking care of himself.

Who really knows?

death_shadows

08-09-2008, 08:07 AM

oh dying of a broken heart is possable its actually been proven! i read about many cases on it sumwhere....i cant remember where, and also there r things where sumone will dye shortly after the one they love dies....its fasinating

Madame le Courayer

08-09-2008, 05:02 PM

It is possible to simply be unable to go living when a person you have grown to love and depend on for whatever (Erik's obsession would fit in here since Christine was the only person for whom and from whom he ever felt any love or affection) suddenly leaves you, thus he died of a broken heart.
As for the footstool in his box, I think he was in the habit of taking Christine to hear the opera during her times of captivity with him. Christine was his lady..I don't think there's any mystery in that.

The Countess

08-10-2008, 02:25 AM

Well, it says that he died of love, which could mean that he gave up the will to live. This could have been combinded with his age and the living conditions.

death_shadows

08-10-2008, 04:59 AM

perhaps. i think he jus couldnt live witout her, that he couldnt live alone. i mean to be alone all ur life...well in a way that is a very scary thought, everyone is loved by at least one person at least once in there life even if its a friend. and when u havent had anyone and then do but then suddenly they leave....well it is heartbreaking. he must have in a way felt abandon and betrayed and heart broken all at the same time. those r strong feelings, and to lose someone u love to death....well perhaps the only thing resonable for an outcome is death its self...maybe he did give up the will to live perhaps the pain was too much to bare, but wutever the case...its such a sad and heartbreaking thing to happen....

Trix

08-18-2008, 10:12 PM

Agreed.
I'm sure we've all had our share of heartbreak, so we all know what the pain feels like, but I'm sure it was magnified a hundred fold for poor Erik.
I can easily see how he would lose the will to live after that.

darcimkire

10-02-2008, 04:52 PM

this is my most favourite novel of all time!:violin:

Kiri_Giry

10-08-2008, 01:43 AM

I read it at the end of my fifth grade year but I mean some things went right over my head but others stuck, and I really liked the beauty of how the words are almost woven together to give you a feel of how Erik really feels. He was obviously in love with Christine and I think that he only let her go because he 1) She would never be happy with him. 2) He wanted whats best for her. So I don't necsassarily think that he was selfish about her not loving him but that he wanted her to be happy. :eek4: Sooo confused!!!! :)

Loettchen

11-12-2008, 04:19 AM

First, I love this book. I'm a huge fan of gothic literature in general, especially horror and romances, and I enjoy the story, writing style, symbolism, and humor used by Leroux. This is also my favorite depiction of Erik.

As for the footstool in his box, I think he was in the habit of taking Christine to hear the opera during her times of captivity with him. Christine was his lady..I don't think there's any mystery in that.

As far as the footstool, just thought I'd bring up that the whole footstool and fan business was happening before Christine met Erik face-to-face. That is, it was still during the Angel of Music period. So she wouldn't have been attending with him or using any hidden doors. Also, Giry never saw anyone enter or leave. Of course, she's not exactly infallible, but my personal take is that it's unlikely any physical person was in there. My guess is that Erik did it to strengthen the idea and reality of the Opera Ghost in Giry's mind. Remember, Giry is proud and considers herself very respectable. I can see her being pleased by the idea of a respectable, upper class ghost and his lady. Just my opinion.

A_Single_Rose

11-13-2008, 12:49 AM

I have been mulling this over in my mind for a long time and I can't figure it out. It's about Erik's Siren. The very first time I read the book, I thought it was literally just a simple alarm. Then I thought it was actually a mythical creature that lived in his lake. After reading it a couple of times, though, it seems like Erik is the Siren. I don't remember where exactly, but Daroga recounts when he was traveling across the lake and heard a beautiful song. He says something about how he was so drawn to it and that something almost drowned him. If I remember correctly, I think it was actually Erik that had nearly drowned him.

So, for a while, I had an "oh..." moment and accepted that Erik was the Siren.

But then there's the death of Count Phillipe. When Erik visited Daroga for the last time, he explains that Phillipe was dead before he got to him. My first thought was "oh, he's probably lying." But before Erik even comes to visit him, the Daroga comes to the conclusion that "the Siren, Erik's Siren," killed him.

I apologize if this question has already been asked and answered here or elsewhere.

Loettchen

11-13-2008, 09:01 PM

But then there's the death of Count Phillipe. When Erik visited Daroga for the last time, he explains that Phillipe was dead before he got to him. My first thought was "oh, he's probably lying." But before Erik even comes to visit him, the Daroga comes to the conclusion that "the Siren, Erik's Siren," killed him.

I apologize if this question has already been asked and answered here or elsewhere.

I don't know about other people, but I think the Siren is just Erik. Both he and the Persian acknowledge that Erik is the one who sang under the water and grabbed the Persian, and that's all the "siren" is, isn't it? Making up a name for this alter ego fits with Erik's general tendency towards distancing himself from blame.

The Persian comes to the conclusion that Erik/the Siren killed Philippe based on the fact that his body was found by the lake. I believe the Persian is merely using the "Erik's siren" nickname ironically. He already knows Erik is the person doing the drowning. When he confronts Erik about it, Erik says, "Don't speak to me of Count Philippe. He was already dead when the siren sang." In other words, the siren didn't kill him. To me, this implies that Erik went out with the full intention of doing his "siren" act, only to, allegedly, discover Philippe had already fallen in and drowned naturally. You're right, he could be lying, but he seems in a truthful mood during this visit. What do you think?

EDIT: On the other hand, just noticed, when Erik gets back after Philippe's death, he does say, "He'll never again ask what time it is. It's the Siren's fault." So maybe he is guilty. Hard to say.

A_Single_Rose

11-14-2008, 03:54 AM

Yeah, I was also thinking that Erik was referring to himself in third person, calling himself the Siren. I remember where it says that they found his body by the lake. I don't think Phillipe just drowned by himself. Yeah, I'm still leaning toward this explanation, where Erik is the Siren.

Plus, the Lon Chaney version has Erik as the Siren, when he takes that breathing pipe - don't remember exactly what it's called - to the lake when that alarm sounds. I know it's a movie and not the book, but the Chaney PotO was pretty truthful to the novel.

Thanks, Lotte!

Loettchen

11-15-2008, 05:16 PM

No problem, Rose. I always found the siren part interesting, too! Also, I just checked my book again and found this specific passage after Erik attacks the Persian in the boat: "He spoke, but I now had no other wish than to know what I already called the trick of the siren. He satisfied my curiosity. [...] He laughed and showed me a long reed."

This is when Erik explains about using the reed to breathe and sing underwater to the Persian. Erik calls it a simple trick, and the Persian sternly says it's a deadly trick. This would seem to indicate that there is nothing more to the Siren than this.

Good point about the Lon Chaney movie, too! And about Philippe. Hard to imagine him just falling out of a boat, now I think about it.

xXphantomaddictedXx

12-29-2008, 04:35 AM

I never understood the passages about the Siren, but now, I think I'm beginning to understand. If the Siren is indeed Erik, then Erik must be more powerful than anyone (even Madame Giry or the Persian) realized. Which leads me to believe that Erik may be immortal; that he may have lived more than one life. If that is true, then Christine might have been dealing with someone or something which could be thousands or even millions of years old. Just a few of my thoughts on the subject.

A_Single_Rose

01-03-2009, 06:12 AM

xXphantomaddictedXx

04-25-2009, 10:09 PM

Though it would be cool to think that Erik was, indeed, a supernatural being (believe me, I think it would be awesome), I don't think he's actually immortal. Maybe, if you believe in reincarnation, you could argue that he is somewhat immortal and his past-life experiences somehow leak into his present-life. I do think that some characters do underestimate him somewhat. He is very powerful, but only mortally so.

I do believe in reincarnation, but only somewhat. Therefore, you might be right about Erik not being immortal. I also have to agree that many (or even most) of the characters do underestimate Erik's power. The managers of the Opera House, for example, blame every little mishap on "the Opera Ghost," and this only seems to make Erik's power over them escalate. Moreover, that power proves to be a major issue for everyone later in the book. Just a few thoughts from my point-of-view.

A_Single_Rose

04-26-2009, 02:19 AM

xXphantomaddictedXx

04-26-2009, 04:14 AM

That's a good point. Though Erik is unquestionably skilled and powerful, I think much of his power and mystique comes from the other characters. They are the ones that dubbed him "Opera Ghost" and keep adding fuel to the legend with claims that he has magical powers, etc. Poor, ignorant people... Well, without them, we wouldn't have the infamous "Opera Ghost" now, would we?

No, we would not! Furthermore, you are right about people being the ones to "ignite the flames" per se, and causing Erik to become rather arrogant. Had they not done all of that, poor Erik would have been left in peace...but we would have had no story. Therefore, maybe it is for the greater good that people did all of those things. Just a thought.

Phantom's Student

05-24-2009, 05:12 AM

I think Leroux is a foundation for the characters as we know them today. The play and movie do not really give you historical background regarding Christine's actual early childhood, or the de Chagny family, etc. Everyone's background plays a huge part in their motivation and decisions later in life. I write a lot about it in my blog and book if you're interested. Leroux is a key element that carries Erik's cry of his heart too, "All I wanted was to be loved for myself."

Hidden Away

07-12-2009, 07:58 PM

Leroux is a foundations and Kay is a large bridge to ALW's Phantom.

Anywho.

It really gives the story's ideals and then Kay gives the history.

I enjoyed the end every time. I could hear his voice straining with every breath that he took until he died. It's shaking!

Kiri_Giry

07-30-2009, 09:50 PM

I know. When I read Kay's book I cried a lot. But I agree she does go more with ALW phantom story. It was touching though. I t helped me look at Erik as more human than God. And I like Leroux's because it helped me see a dark side to the phantom. I think that both books portray a different Phantom/Erik.

The Countess

07-31-2009, 08:56 PM

Leroux is a foundations and Kay is a large bridge to ALW's Phantom.

Actually, she said that she based her version off of the animated movie as well. Just thought that that was interesting. :lips:

Anyway, as you all know, I'm crazy purist about this book, but something has begun to peeve me over the last few months. I didn't like so much how in the dark Leroux kept us. It seems that he built up these characters and then just didn't finish them just so crazy phans like us are left to decide what happens. Then he has these characters that are important for the scene, but then are never mentioned again. It irks me a little...I guess that that's mystery writing for you. I probably shouldn't complain because if it weren't the lack of information given, we never would have drawn our own opinions. :biglaugh:

lynn82md

10-09-2009, 09:34 AM

How did you like the book in general?
For me, it was alright to read. I was inspired to read it after I watched the documentary called "Behind the Mask" on the 2004 movie DvD. I finished reading the novel about two years ago.

I do have to agree with what Andrew Loyld Webber said when he read the book. It was confusing at times to read as far as trying to figure out the genre of the book was. At one point, it felt like I was reading a documentary...like this actually happened. Another point, it felt like I was reading a mystery. Other times, a romance and a drama.

However, despite the confusion, it kept my interest...which is important. I do think the Phantom, Christine, and Raoul are a bit more different in the book than they are in the musical. Phantom comes off as crazy at times. Christine came off as *****y at times. Raoul came off as a wimp at times.

Edith

01-17-2010, 02:24 AM

Ah, Gaston Lourox's novel. I was just so temtped to read it after coming back from the broadway in NYC and watching Andrew Lloyd Webber's version of the movie. Which was about... a week ago (and I'm already almost done with the book! Noo!)

I've read about 221 out of 360 pages of the book and as I stated before I have been reading for about a week (Yes, I am slow reader but mostly I stopped either from being shocked or crying). Gaston Lourox, I just think has come up with the most amazing ideas and the way he got them (or so according to phans, the way he got them) was absolutely genius!

I, for one, adore his writing style, which brought me to enjoy his humbly described and desparately in-love, Raoul. It was quite sad to hear about his past--and now I pity the poor man very much as my tears of love for him turned to complete sorrow and now loving him more--, but I very much enjoyed reading every suspenseful moment of the, small, black book only decorated by the title and a white mask.

His Erik, was only just explained clearer by Christine at my point (*so could not word that correctly*), and so far I pity him just as much--no, maybe more--than Raoul. I quote Christine, "And in his eyes, all the sorrow in the world." I can imagine his voice must be the most wonderful sound a human being could ever here, and I won't ever judge him by the way his face may look. Although it may be a face born in hell, his heart I can swear if he were treated correctly from the mere start is of pure heaven as well as his intentions and feelings for Christine. I will cry for him every night--even if you don't hear me or see my crying I know I am crying in my heart. I again quote Christine, "Poor Erik!" *cries*

Gaston Lourox has done such and amazing job with this book that I can actually declare I read romance stories. I am not a huge fan of anything with the slightest bit of romance--I mean Avatar would have been fine, Mamma Mia OWNED--but Gaston Lourox and The Phantom of the Opera... was just something. He has written the first and only story that goes deep into romance and tradegy (as well as our mysteries) I will ever read. Screw Mamma Mia, Memoirs of a Geisha, I am so sorry, chow Avatar, The Phantom has stolen my heart! Not only that, but my body, and my soul!

Gaston Lourox and his famous writings will always serve a special place in my heart, and even if one day--dare I say it--I forget about such a masterpiece, my heart will still beat as it will always remember the emotion it brought me. I love you, Erik, and you too... Monsieur Lourox.

little sultana

08-02-2010, 05:14 PM

Hi, I'm new here. First and foremost, I wanted to give

a quick shout out to all my fellow
Leroux Purists/ Phantom Canon phans!

Also, I'd like to invite all those interested to check out (and hopefully join) my new site, dedicated to Gaston leroux's Phantom of the OPera. Note, this site was created specifically for Canon phans and no other versions of teh Phantom
are ever discussed there. So, if you love the original POTO novel, please visit my site. Here's the link:

www.thephantomcanon.webs.com.

ErikPhan

08-02-2010, 08:19 PM

little sultana, I love the discussion you're having about the relationship between the Phantom and the Persian ;)

xXphantomaddictedXx

10-02-2010, 03:15 AM

Wow, I should really reread the Leroux novel sometime soon, having seen the 1925 Lon Chaney film for what is technically my first time, I mean. I've seen the 1929 re-release many times, but I digress.

To get back on topic, my favorite part of the novel (as weird as it sounds) is the part where Christine must choose between the scorpion and the grasshopper. I thought it was a very well written (and rather ominous) part of the story that showed Christine's true character. We get to see her turn from the naïve little chorus girl she once was to a strong woman who is more than capable of making her own choices.

Just a few of my thoughts.

IamErik771

10-08-2010, 06:47 PM

Not sure how many people here have heard about this... but Penguin Books has released a brand-new translation of Leroux's novel! I've only gotten to read bits of it so far (hoping to get my own copy soon), but this could be the best one yet! It was translated by Mirielle Ribiére, who was not only educated in both France and the UK, but also happens to be quite knowledgeable about the many different versions of POTO. You can buy this new translation here! (http://www.amazon.com/Phantom-Opera-Pocket-Penguin-Classics/dp/0141035935/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1286559973&sr=1-1)

WanderingChild96

07-06-2011, 07:14 PM

I want to say that first and foremost, I'm a Leroux purist. But, even I can't deny that the book is... confusing, to say the least. There are just so many genres! And being a purist, most of my fanfiction does end in Erik's death. I ship R/C.

Now, before you shoot me for being a "fop-lover," can I please point out that Raoul did NOT "steal Christine from Erik?"

The musical has messed with everyone's heads. In Leroux, Erik didn't stalk Christine from the time she was a child. He only gave her lessons for about three months before she performed in Faust. And, she didn't have any sexual feelings towards him. Point of No Return? Didn't happen.

That said, I don't even think Monsieur Leroux knew what he was doing when he wrote the book. First, he says that the story is true. To that I say this: I don't believe that it happened, but I believe that it's based on true events and real people. There was no Christine Daae. But there WAS a Christine Niilson.

Anyway, next it's a mystery. Then it's a ghost story. And by the end, it's a drama/adventure/romance... He even threw humor in there with those stupid chapters about the managers and the safety pin! It was unnecessary. I think the lack of structure to the book is why it was so badly received when it was first printed.

But we phans have to thank Leroux for writing it, because without it, we wouldn't have a fandom. These are just my thoughts... And regardless, the novel still has the ability to break my heart. Poor, unhappy Erik! :BrokenHeart:

xXphantomaddictedXx

12-23-2011, 02:30 PM

Yes. Poor, unhappy Erik, indeed!

IMO, he isn't a monster, per se; he's just a misunderstood genius. I think if people had taken the time to get to know him better, a lot of things wouldn't have happened.

Then again, if that was the case, we wouldn't have such an epic story! :spin2:

Sammi

12-29-2011, 07:33 PM

I started off reading Leroux's book - now I know the storyline well enough to watch the 25th Anniversary DVD and fully understand what's going on. :) The book is one of my favourites as well.

IamErik771

01-02-2012, 07:03 PM

I want to say that first and foremost, I'm a Leroux purist. But, even I can't deny that the book is... confusing, to say the least. There are just so many genres! And being a purist, most of my fanfiction does end in Erik's death. I ship R/C.

...

That said, I don't even think Monsieur Leroux knew what he was doing when he wrote the book. First, he says that the story is true. To that I say this: I don't believe that it happened, but I believe that it's based on true events and real people. There was no Christine Daae. But there WAS a Christine Niilson.

Anyway, next it's a mystery. Then it's a ghost story. And by the end, it's a drama/adventure/romance... He even threw humor in there with those stupid chapters about the managers and the safety pin! It was unnecessary. I think the lack of structure to the book is why it was so badly received when it was first printed.

It's interesting... For me, the fact that the novel covers so many genres is one of the most appealing things about it. I think Gaston Leroux and some other authors of the period were really ahead of their time in setting that up; only in recent years has our popular culture gotten more comfortable with stories that span across multiple genres. For example (although this may not be the best analogy one could come up with), the 2010 film Inception was a heist film, an action blockbuster, a science-fiction film, a psychological thriller, a romance, a surrealist philosophical study, and more. Leroux was doing something very similar, but he did it a hundred years before that film was made.

To me, none of it (even the humor) came across as unnecessary, because what Leroux was trying to do was to take all those clichés of Gothic horror and romance -- the beautiful and innocent heroine, heroic aristocrat, and vile monster -- and bring them into the real world, making them into flawed characters who could have really existed. Because he was trying to create a story that could make readers believe it may have actually happened, he didn't restrict himself to writing a specific genre; after all, real life certainly doesn't fit neatly into a genre. That said, some of the English translations of the novel seemed not to recognize that, and so they often end up seeming more awkwardly put together than the French version did. (Especially Alexander Teixeira de Mattos's version, since he left out long paragraphs and even an entire chapter -- pretty much whatever he found marginally difficult to translate ended up getting cut.)

The fact that Leroux wrote the novel across so many genres also made it possible for so many different adaptations to be done. There have been the ones that focused more on the love story (like the ALW musical or the Charles Dance miniseries), the ones that focused more on horror (the 1989 Robert Englund film), and lots of other variations, and so there's a version of the story for pretty much anyone. And yet, it's pretty nice to see that whatever version we were introduced to the story through, almost every Phan can then read and enjoy Leroux's novel, because the elements we liked from all those other versions were in some way drawn from his original book, even if those elements were changed around to fit the vision of the writers/directors who created those adaptations.