Raoul de Chagny

[cinty]

Raoul is sweet. He is protective, kind, noble and everything wonderful. Although I love Erik most, Raoul is not far behind. he was christine's childhood sweetheart and has loved her for many years. Undeniably a great character.

[Meg Giry]

He's not as dramatic of the Phantom, but I think you're right, Jacinta. I totally agree.

[sing_for_me]

Raoul is bashed too much. It seems to me like a lot of people blame him for Christine not staying with Erik.

I kind of feel sorry for him, poor guy. :(

[Opera Ghost]

Yes, I feel sorry for him too. It's obvious how much he loves and cares about Christine, and how hurt he is when he thinks that Phantom is stealing Christine's heart. I don't agree with the people who say he's a silly fop and that he's wet and unheroic, and that the graveyard fight sequence is only put in to make him look like a hero. He's a good guy, he loves Christine, and he has every reason to be against Phantom who keeps taking his love away from Raoul.

[wolfwynd]

I am a very big Erik/Christine shipper but I do feel sorry for Raoul. He get bashed too much (and I should know, having done my fair share of bashing lol!) but Patrick Wilson made him likable daresay loveable in the movie! I now longer feel any dislike towards him, I'm just neutral. I also agree Christine made the best choice leaving with Raoul as he was the stable one and she could have an almost normal life with him that she couldn't possibly have with Erik

[cinty]

I agree that Raoul gets bashed too much. I mean, you've got to put yourself in his shoes before you get stuck into him. He was a young man deeply in love and from his point of view, some maniac who was a murderer and who Christine was scared of kept on trying to take her away from him. You can't blame him for not understanding what the situation was really like. He really is a good person and he just didn't quite understand the relationship between Christine and Erik. He didn't understand how much Erik meant to christine, even though she was scared of him. I mean, I wouldn't like sharing my boyfriend (if I had one!) with another girl who kept on trying to take him back! At first I hated Raoul, but I gradually fell very deeply in love with him, after someone told me to look at him from that viewpoint. So I'm a real Christine- I love both men very deeply, but in different ways. Raoul was the practical choice, and deep down, I am glad she went with him, although I would ahve loved her to marry Erik.

[IamErik771]

I agree that Raoul doesn't deserve all the bashing he's been getting from the Phans. It's not his fault that he loves Christine, and would do anything to protect her. I feel that Erik needed Christine more than Raoul ever could, but Christine probably would not have been happy staying with a hideously deformed murderer, even if he was her "angel of music." Christine probably made the safer choice in deciding to go with Raoul.

[Christine Daaé]

He really is a sweet guy. A little hot-headed sometimes, and somewhat misunderstanding of the Erik/Christine relationship, but a lot of people are like that when they're in love. He's willing to do anything for Christine -- in the book, he even "pretends" to be engaged to her, something most men of the time would never do if they were to keep their dignity intact. I don't understand Raoul-bashing. Just because he took Christine away from Erik? I think now.

~ Zelda de le Fantôme

[The Phantom]

For some reason Raoul is the easiest to bash when it comes to the whole love triangle of the series. Today I was watching Phantom in my French class and a girl that had never seen the movie or shows before started hating Raoul, just because he "took" Christine away from the Phantom. Then I had another girl asking me if Phantom got Christine, which was supporting Erik. It's amazing how people can fall in love with something the first time. :)

[BlondeAngel]

people that usually bash Raoul up probably just saw the movie and feel sorry for Erik, I daresay that I din't like Raoul at the begining; I think that he a really sweet man and that he truely loves Christine and will do anything for her. He is the Phantom's rival, one might say, but I think that Christine fallwed her heart and made a very good choice

[Countess Cain]

I don't like him nor do I hate him. I do consider all the bashing to be pointless, though.

The only part of him I don't really appreciate is his characterization in Leroux's book... Particularly the "It should have been 'Poor Raoul!'" part, or whatever. O_o;

[cinty]

I actually really like Raoul in the book as well. he is such a spunk when he stands up to his brother who won't let him marry Christine. I think he is so courageous and such a cutie. Sometimes he is a bit too whiney, but I still like him alot. And after all.. what's wrong with guys crying? Erik cries too.. and no one bashes him like they do Raoul.

[Raoulsgal0689]

I LOVE him!! Such a sweetheart! "All I ask of you" is such a beautiful song and sequence

[The Khanum]

I came here to fume, so I'd back away if I were you...

::Clears throat::

I really don't like Raoul. It's not because I'm a devoted Erik phan, either...I just don't like his personality. I guess you could say he rubs me the wrong way; I don't know. He seems...under-developed, for lack of a better term. He doesn't have a strong enough personality...no quirks, no obvious faults, like his character is too convenient for the plot.

I'm also not going to say that Christine should have necessarily picked Erik over Raoul, though... If she truly did love Raoul (which, depending to each version, I have my doubts on...), then yes, by all means, save the man and get married to him. But sometimes their relationship seems too fake, too based on Christine's fears and needs and not on the blend of their personalities. Sort of like, Christine is scared, Raoul is a shoulder to cry on...(two seconds later)..."Hey, Christine, I have a wild idea...even though we were only reunited this evening, let's get hitched! Thank God for Las Vegas!"

"Sure, Raoul...whatever you say."

I don't know...there didn't seem to be enough substance there. Too spur-of-the-moment, not true love. Though I will say, I have much more respect for Raoul in Susan Kay's Phantom than in any other version. He at least acknowledged the fact that Erik did in fact love Christine and he was not a raving, psychotic monster. Kudos to Susan Kay for making redeeming Raoul in my mind.

::Braces self for onslaught of tomatoes thrown by Raoul-lovers::

~Erik is my Hero

[Always_Erik_Fan]

I am a MAJOR EC shipper (see my status), but I feel rather sorry for Raoul. All he ever wanted was to be loved by Christine, and he had every right to be jealous of Erik.

I believe he was a sweet, naive boy who just did not know what he was up against, but wanted to "slay the dragon" who would have his "princess." ~lol~ Just my opinions; please don't Punjab!

[andydrumm05]

Originally posted by sing_for_me
Raoul is bashed too much. It seems to me like a lot of people blame him for Christine not staying with Erik.

I kind of feel sorry for him, poor guy. :(

I feel the same way!! I'm a raoul fan, now don't get me wrong...when I first saw the movie, I thought Raoul is an idiot...but the more I thought about it, and the more I gathered about the love triangle...Raoul can fall in to crap and still smell like roses in my book!! LOL

But I'll stick up for him any day and twice on Sunday!!

But don't let the folks at Phantom of the Opera (http://www.phantomoftheopera.com) read this...there are some people who would tear Raoul apart to his face!! It's sickening.

[cinty]

Hey andydrumm, thankyou so much! I'm glad I'm not the only one. He is a sweet guy. he is not a horrible guy. He's lovely. I like Always Erik fans idea.

[Luciana]

We're all entitled to our own opinion, and, in this case, my opinion happens to differ from most of you. I basically agree with Erik is my Hero. Raoul annoys me. Even if Erik was completely raving and holding a gun to Christine's head and abusing her, I'd still not like Raoul. If Erik was like that, I wouldn't like him either, and I would advise Christine to move far, far away. Even if Erik didn't exist, I still wouldn't have picked Raoul for her.

I think that he does love Christine, but I just think that he's an over zealous boy who is used to getting his every whim. He's not used to competion, and that makes him mad.

I just don't like him.

Raoul reminds me of some of the boys at my school. Rich, toward the top of the foodchain, and good looking. But what's underneath?

There's no fire. Maybe some coals, but there's no subsitute for the heat fire provides.

[YoungGiry]

I don't really like Raoul. I don't hate him, but he annoys me. I don't think Christine could ever be really happy with him. She has to much darkness to truly be happy with someone who has not a speck of darkness.

And some of his lines make me doubt his intelligence, which certainly does not make me any more sympathetic to him.

I do like the way he is portrayed in the Gaston Leroux version better. Or maybe I just like the Gaston Leroux version in general.

[Wishing]

He was willing to give up his life for her to be free, and he also knew that she always kind of loved Erik.
Everyone bashes him on how he did not notice her until she was singing "Think of Me", but they had not seen each other for a long time, and Christine must have noticed him by his voice when he began talking.

[Erik]

Originally posted by cinty
Raoul is sweet. He is protective, kind, noble and everything wonderful. Although I love Erik most, Raoul is not far behind. he was christine's childhood sweetheart and has loved her for many years. Undeniably a great character.

I disagree. I don't think he loved her for many years. I think that he played with her, then forgot about her. Well, not entirely, he just never gave her much thought afterwords, until he saw her, then heard her voice.

Also, when she's sings "Twisted" (is that the name of the song?), Raoul is just kind of like : I know you're scared and don't want to do it, but we're all counting on you! Like, come on! No pressure or anything. She's pretty young, and I think that Raoul abused her love for him, and used it against her, making her do it. I know it was her choice, but under the influence of Raoul...it didn't seem fair. She was frightened to death, for crying out loud!

[Angel_Of_Music0_G]

Roaul is a nice and sweet guy and really like Christine and I respect that.

[Phantomgirl05]

I like Raoul a lot. I agree with most of you who say Raoul is a sweet guy who was just in love with Christine, and got jealous that Erik was trying to take her away. Sure, at times he seemed a bit dumb and clueless, but I think his feelings for Christine were geniune. Plus, Patrick Wilson made him so darn hot!

[Christine*Raoul]

I think Raoul is awesome! I am a big Christine/Raoul shipper though, so it's just my opinion. I've never really cared for the Phantom. I mean, yeah, I feel kind of sorry for him, but, what can I say. Christine made a good choice! The Phantom did not deserve Christine. Raoul won over Christine's heart. Ah! Christine and Raoul are so perfect for eachother!

[The Phantom]

I'm not the type of person to hate a character or to go for just one ship or another. Personally, I commend him for fighting so hard to get the girl of his dreams. That shows that he truly loved Christine, and would do anything for her... even almost die in the process. In each version I've seen of Raoul he's a bit different; Leroux had him as an inquisitive type; Webber, as sort of the person who didn't jump until the last moment; and in the movie, Raoul was a lot more "in your face" about saving Christine. He was willing to take chances. :nod:

[The Phantom]

Discuss the sleek-haired opera patron who risked his life for the love of Christine Daaé in the 2005 Movie Version here.

[Raoulsgal0689]

Huh?! There was a 2005 movie? Do you mean 2004? If so then... WHOOT!! I love mi Raoul!! He is the bestest!! He is soooo sweet and sooooo romantic! I LOVE LOVE LOVE him....

[The Phantom]

Discuss Andrew Lloyd Webber's rendition of Raoul de Chagny here.

[Luciana]

I can't say I cared for him. I didn't hate him, but I'm just so sick of pretty boys.

In the end, I'm just not into him. *Waits for tomatos to kill her* I guess that I'm just more inclined to like the person I can relate to more. And the boy who's gotten just about everything all of his life, the girl included, isn't really who I can see myself relating to all that easily.

Plus any guy who's hair looks silkier then mine isn't exactly my type of guy.

[Luciana]

Discuss your opinion on Susan Kay's portrayal of the Vicomte de Chagny here!

[Luciana]

Tell all about Raoul as Gaston Leroux told him in his novel in this thread.

[NEH]

He irritates me. Thats about as nicely as i can put it!

[IamErik771]

I actually rather liked Leroux's portrayal of Raoul. Some say he's airheaded and insensitive, but I think that's merely his complete innocence and naîvete. He's never been in love before, especially with a singer who (in his opinion) "twists his emotions around her finger." Obviously, once he finds out how much danger Christine is in, he's willing to go to any lengths to rescue her. And after all, who really is sensible when they love?

[The Phantom]

Well, on the contrary to what it seems in this discussion thread, I actually commend Raoul for the determination his character portrayed in the new movie. Not many people would fight and stand up to The Phantom. Most died in the process, or like the Opera Manager before Firmin and Andre, he only gave in and paid the 20,000 francs. Raoul was determined to win Christine’s love, one way or another. He went through glass mazes, swam under water, and nearly was killed in the moment of rage and passion during “Point of No Return.”

Though he was spared when Erik realized that Christine still had passion for both of them, and that it would do no good to kill him. No matter what people say, Raoul would have been the better choice of the two sides. Sure, Christine could have gotten a life time of dark music and passion, but after a while that life style would have gotten to her. Raoul could offer her marriage, a family, and a normal life with the remaining passions she would enjoy.

Also, please try to have actual discussion, instead of pointless one-liners.

[IamErik771]

I thought ALW's Raoul really got the short end of the stick, as far as characterization is concerned. He doesn't have much time onstage, and only really has the main part in one song. In that sense, it's mostly up to the individual actor to bring any depth they can to the role, whereas Erik and Christine both have a lot of emotional depth written into their parts, and the actors have to be able to live up to that.

[IamErik771]

Steve, I agree with you completely. I like how the swordfight was added, so that Raoul could actually have a chance to fight for Christine, rather than standing around like in the stage version. And although I thought the "underwater cage" scene really wasn't necessary, it did put a bit more meaning behind his lines in the Final Lair scene.

[Night feather]

Personally I hated Patrick Wilson's portrayal of Raoul. I really growed a hatred to the character which I didn't experience at all when I saw the musical on stage.

Since then I read different versions on the book, and I hated the performance of Patrick Wilson and not the character. Raoul is a very likeable guy, well in Leroux's I think he is a bit too naïve. But I think PW made him a arrogant prick, and it is not at all understandable why she wants to leave with Raoul in the same way it has been in other versions.

Sorry Patrick, you were better in Angels in America...

[NEH]

I feel i should apologise for my spam-ic contribution above... In terms of Patrick Wison's portrayl of Rauol i think that he - as with the other leads - did the best with what he was given, which was not a lot and not altogether that complimentary to a character that really is sweet and loyal and genuine in Leroux's novel... i love the musical to pieces, but it just seems to have warped him a bit into a - well - snobby p**** as said above whom i find much much more difficult to back in the battle for Chris than good old Erik, who i always love. The pompousness and ignorance of Pat's rauol did get played down in moments though to his credit, such as the cute little gestures or looks of utter confusion and worry which do find you sympathising with him... even if he is the "other guy" in your view... sorry - me strong e/c shipper!!!

[JelliclePhantom]

I liked him. He was very good.

[Erik]

Hey, JelliclePhantom, please try to keep your posts at least ten words long. Anything less is considered spam, and spam is no good.

Originaly posted by La Carlotta

Plus any guy who's hair looks silkier then mine isn't exactly my type of guy.

Burn. Same here though. I hated tha hair.

Actually, I don't like Raoul very much in general, but Patrick Wilson did an OK job. Better than what he might have done. And not a horrible singing voice, either. I liked Wilson's voice better than the one who sang as Raoul in the OLC.

And the swordfight was hilariouse for me, because I was making fun of Rauol the whole time. "Where did he go? Why don't I just stand here and wait for him to kill me. . .Gah! Where did you come from?" Hahaha. OK, sorry for that. I'm done. ;)

[JelliclePhantom]

Okay, thanks for telling me. I will try to have at least 10 words or more. :cd1:

[Raoulsgal0689]

Alright! I have to give MY two cents...*ignores groans from Erik phans*

Honestly I think that Patrick Wilson did an AMAZING job as Raoul! His voice was phenomenal (sp?) and he is an awesome actor!

I still don't get what is so annoying to so many people about Raoul!! He is so sweet, so romantic, so charming, and so cute!! I'm sorry, but I honestly don't see what so many others see in Erik...Erik is just too scary and insane for my taste. Raoul is everything a good husband (or boyfriend) should be! He is kind, caring, devoted, and willing to give up his own life so that the woman he loves might be happy! I can't understand why people hate him so much!

[Red_Rose369]

I like Raoul a bit but... (no offense Lauryn and any other Raoul fans) but Patrick Wilson made me hate Raoul, it wasn't until I reread Leroux's Phantom and saw Phantom on Broadway that I begun to like him again.

I thought Patrick had a good voice and I loved him in the graveyard and Final Lair scene but I didn't like his long hair too much, it made him seem...I don't know wierd. That was pretty much the only thing that bugged me about him.

[Phantompherak12]

Originally posted by The Phantom
I disagree. I don't think he loved her for many years. I think that he played with her, then forgot about her. Well, not entirely, he just never gave her much thought afterwords, until he saw her, then heard her voice.

Also, when she's sings "Twisted" (is that the name of the song?), Raoul is just kind of like : I know you're scared and don't want to do it, but we're all counting on you! Like, come on! No pressure or anything. She's pretty young, and I think that Raoul abused her love for him, and used it against her, making her do it. I know it was her choice, but under the influence of Raoul...it didn't seem fair. She was frightened to death, for crying out loud!

I completly agree Sammy (my new nickname for you). He's not a bad guy. I do prefer Erik, but Raoul is OKAY! When she knows that he will be there, and Raoul is saying, "Come on we are all counting on you." Or in more detailed words, "But every hope and every prayer rests on you now." That is just like telling a softball pitcher, you have to strike her out. Too much pressure.

He didn't love her for many years either. They were childhood friends, she became an orphan and he forgot about her. Then one night he saw her and fell in love. If you really love someone then you never forget. Then again they were young and didn't know any better.

[Erik]

Hah. Actually, I'd rather you didn't call me Sammy. Only one that's allowed is Syio. a.k.a. God.

Finally, though, someone agrees with me. lol. I've been pitching that idea ever since Anna mentioned it to me, but everyone has been like "Yeah, whatever."

A lot more willing to take chances, Steve? Nyha, I don't think so, love. More like "Hey, let's go to the dungeons, what have I got to lose?" he didn't know about the trap.

Well, I suppose I'm not being fair, am I? i'll give him the fact that he knew Erik was off his rocker and in love with Christine, and Raoul was infatuated enough with her to risk his life to go get her, but still. . .running down staires didn't require much skill, if you ask me, not knowing the trap was there and all.

Alrighty, I realize that that may not have made much sense, but it's late, so. . .yesh. i'm gone.

[syioandthephantom]

Bahaha! Sammy, you know I love you!!! I love everyone!! Sept one or two people! But we don't talk about that. I think Raoul has good intentions, I mean why can't he love the girl? He has just as much right as Erik. I think Raoul is actually a really well formed character, and where would the tension be without a goodie-goodie?

I actually have really mixed feelings about Raoul, I dislike him also for a few of the reasons KT mentioned. He just . . .doesn't seem consistant I suppose. Now I'm going to sound like I'm contridicting myself, but just pretend I don't. ^_^ I think that if he really loved her he would have tried to find her before he became patron? I dunno. I'm confusing myself now. I'll jsut be going. . .

[Raoulsgal0689]

Originally posted by cinty
I agree that Raoul gets bashed too much. I mean, you've got to put yourself in his shoes before you get stuck into him. He was a young man deeply in love and from his point of view, some maniac who was a murderer and who Christine was scared of kept on trying to take her away from him. You can't blame him for not understanding what the situation was really like. He really is a good person and he just didn't quite understand the relationship between Christine and Erik. He didn't understand how much Erik meant to christine, even though she was scared of him. I mean, I wouldn't like sharing my boyfriend (if I had one!) with another girl who kept on trying to take him back! At first I hated Raoul, but I gradually fell very deeply in love with him, after someone told me to look at him from that viewpoint. So I'm a real Christine- I love both men very deeply, but in different ways. Raoul was the practical choice, and deep down, I am glad she went with him, although I would ahve loved her to marry Erik.

I would just like to say THANK YOU!! I am happy that someone finally gets it! Though I think that I must be the ONLY girl in the ENTIRE phandom to be in love with Raoul only! I have nothing against Erik...but Raoul seems like THE perfect guy! I still am having trouble seeing exactly what Raoul-bashers have against him. If you are unhappy with Christine not choosing Erik, then be mad at Christine! Not Raoul...he had nothing to do with it! He didn't make the choice for her. He didn't MAKE her go with him. She chose him over Erik...simple as that. STOP THE BASHING...PLEASE!!

[Prince Familiar]

I really like Raoul, possibly my favourite character, but...
When the audience is first introduced to him, its already like the audience favours The Phantom, and also he says tha Little lottte....well thats what happend with me...I disliked him throuought the whole film up untill

"I fought so hard to free you...." Amazing

[Christine Daaé]

Raoul in this version was heartbreaking. He had to win and lose at the same time, and that's terrible to have to do.

So he got Christine in the end as a wife. But did he ever get her heart? She always belonged to Erik, truly, because of course authors like Kay just have to paint Erik as "misunderstood" rather than a crazy stalker. To make people feel more for Erik than for Raoul, you have to have Christine feel for Erik instead of Raoul. But Raoul deserves love, too, and he gave up a lot.

So, to those who say that Raoul is a "wimp" or a "superficial fop", I call BS on that. He loved Christine, but in the Kay version he had to settle for her presence rather than her love. That's a hard thing to do, and his bravery -- living with a wife who loved someone else, raising a child and knowing that it wasn't yours but that of the man your wife really loves -- is remarkable.

In short, I love Erik, but I have equal love for Raoul, especially in Kay's version.

~ Zelda

[Christine Daaé]

I completely agree. Raoul has basically no character written for him in the stage show, so the actors playing him are basically playing by ear.

And then you get those rabid phans who verbally assault the Raoul actors because they believe Raoul "stole" Christine. I want to slap those people. First off, Raoul did not "steal" Christine -- she would have gone with him originally, had she a choice that wouldn't endanger his life. Second, it's a show. Enough said there.

I don't just pity Raoul -- I love him, too, as much as I love Erik. I know I'm getting weird looks right now, but it's possible, folks.

~ Zelda

[AAW0487]

I like ALW's version of Raoul. I dunno in the movie and play he just seems to fit the character better. He as in Leroux's book does foolishly make mistakes because he is so focused on trying to get Christine back he really doesn't think about what he's up against. I mean at the end of the movie when he attempts to rescue Christine he just kinda barges into the Phantom's lair without thinking. He looks for several seconds at the gate slowly closing behind him and then the lasso is around his neck and he's tied to the gate.

Either way I like Raoul's character and it wouldn't be POTO without him too!

[AAW0487]

I agree with you there Zelda! Though I must say that I am more of a fan of Erik's. I do think that Raoul also deserved love as well! I think Christine should have told Raoul about his son really being Erik's. That must have been very hard to know you were raising another man's son! Raoul was with no doubt a good man with a loving heart!

[AAW0487]

I really did like Patrick Wilson playing the part of Raoul! He seemed to fit the part very well! I like it when he is able to stand up to the Phantom. I can't believe he actually fought him! Most people died trying to fight Erik! The only thing I didn't care for in the movie was his sideburns...their huge! But besides that I liked his overall character and his love for Christine was sweet.

[AAW0487]

Raoul is a generous, caring, gentleman. However, I am still more of an Erik/Christine fan myself..I still liked his character! I agree that he was naive like Christine was and they both kind of grew up. But I still can't believe he fought Erik and lived! Though I think it's a good thing he did live because otherwise Christine would have hated the Phantom forever! And plus it wouldn't be POTO without Raoul!

[AAW0487]

Raoul seems to jump into things rather quickly. He never really looked before he leaped. I think without the Persian at his side he would have surely died on the way to Erik's lair. But he is a good character to have. And I love his relationship with Christine when they are younger and he runs into the ocean to save her scarf. I am a true fan of E/C, but Raoul was a great person too!

[The Phantom]

I don't know really where to start, since the Raoul threads have been merged and all of the discussion is crammed together, LOL. But Raoul has a good heart and he wants the best for Christine, but in a way he should have just asked her who she wanted to choose. But then in another way, he knew that if she made the wrong choice that she might have been in danger. Who knows. >.>

[getzell]

Roul should be with Christene at least he isn't crazy like the Phantom all though i care about him to I'd deffinintly pick Roul

[lisalawless]

Originally posted by sing_for_me
Raoul is bashed too much. It seems to me like a lot of people blame him for Christine not staying with Erik.

I kind of feel sorry for him, poor guy. :(

I agree it he doesn't derserve all the crap he gets. All her done was love someone:raoulc1:

[northangel27]

Poor Raoul. I do love him so, and so often his is horribly maligned in the world of phanfiction, and phandom in general.

Raoul, in my mind, was a dear sweet boy, and passionate about Christine in the way that only dear sweet boys can be. He would have done anything for her, but was still so much a child.

I have to love him for his passion and dedication to Christine, even when she rebuked him and tried to push him away again and again. I even admire his persistance in the face of the very real danger of being murdered by Christine's "secret teacher". Only young men can have such a total disregard for their own safety in the face of love.

He was so safe. No wonder Christine was drawn to him. To lie in his arms and know that everything was going to be alright; everything would be predictable and peaceful and beautiful, every day for the rest of your life... That can be very appealing.

I love Erik as well, but it is a different and more difficult kind of love, and I don't know that if I had been put in the same position as Christine, at the age she was, that I would have made a decision any different than the one she made.

Raoul deserves more respect. He was a good decent man of high morals and convictions, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

[More than Music]

I think that Raoul is vastly under-rated. Me? I'm a Raoul phan. XD But I've just recently become one. Before, I was still on Raoul's side. I can't name a single Phantom phan that didn't detest Raoul at the beginning at the moment. Especially those who saw ALW's version of Phantom first. Ugh.
That promoted Erik and put down Raoul alot at first sighting. And the hair? Oi! When pulled back it looks kinda nice though. ;) Patrick Wilson was a handsome Raoul, but maybe a bit too masuline. That doesn't matter though, because people still regarded his as 'Oh, such a FOP!!!1!!11' after watching. Or most of them atleast.

I am grieved to say that I called Raoul a fop many many times when I first became a phan. But I've looked farther than his distorted looks(what ALW did for the Phantom) and seen him for the person he is. ... Or was. Whatever. ;)

Don't get me wrong, I think Erik is an interesting person. I like him. But I feel Raoul needs me more. In most phanphiction I've seen, Erik is the 'hottie' and Raoul is the 'gay fop who acts more girlie than Christine'. It sickens me. Both are out of character in most phics.

I would write a phanphic where I would put one of my characters with Raoul(that would be so cool), but it's too complicated.
I mean, how to get Christine out of the picture? The only way I see is to kill her off(no offence to Christine phans). But I don't see Raoul coming out of that and going into another relationship. Another problem is, would he ever love another? See? It's just too complicated.

Here's a question from me: Is it possible to make a believable Raoul/Other Woman phic?

Originally posted by andydrumm05 But don't let the folks at Phantom of the Opera (http://www.phantomoftheopera.com) read this...there are some people who would tear Raoul apart to his face!! It's sickening. [/B]

Actually, I heard that the IPFC (http://www.phantomoftheopera.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=10046&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&type=&mode=0&start=0) have calmed most of them down. I hear about how they're helping alot. ;)

[MystMoonstruck]

Hmmm... Have I been on this thread yet? Forgive me if I repeat myself, but I am a fan of Raoul. I've seen various versions of POTO and have done some reading; I vote for Raoul vs. Erik.

Especially in the filmed musical, Christine LOATHES Erik at the last, seeing how he has murdered a number of people. He's being spiteful and hateful to her at the last, telling her he'll murder Raoul if she doesn't give in to him and taunting her with the face she'll have to look at. If there was any sympathy for him before from Christine, he stamps it out here. If she still pitied him, what basis is that for a relationship? Erik might have stirred the flames, so to speak, but desire/lust is a far cry from a relationship--which she can have with Raoul.

Raoul is a gentle, gallant, thoughtful, brave youth, foolhardy perhaps but willing to sacrifice his life for Christine several times over. Christine doesn't seem to be the brightest girl, and she doesn't seem passionate about performing--not really. I think she'd be happier as a wife and mother with Raoul; I'm sure she was though she probably remembered Erik. Raoul obviously understood since he was there to buy the music box that Christine had described. I think she made the right choice. It says a lot about Raoul that he went there to buy the music box to take to Christine's grave and to be respectful of Erik's parting gift.

The Raouls in most versions also are admirable--pure of heart and intent, ready to dare all sorts of dangers to rescue the damsel in distress.

If GerryErik looked like earlier versions of Erik, I'm not sure there would be a Raoul vs. Erik debate. I know this has been stated before, but it bears repeating.

[Jacqueline L'e Phantome]

I know bashing is not nice but I don't like Raoul he interfred with erik and chistine and yah...

[masquerading rose]

Well, put yourself in Raoul's situation. Raoul was in love with Christine. Christine loved him, but The phantom loved Christine (bear with me). The phantom steals Christine. Raoul (being the loving, brave guy he is), saves the one he loves.

[Angel's Muse]

Hey, hey, hey! Raoul did NOT interfere with Christine and Erik. Even when he first came on the scene, Christine and Erik were NOT an item.

Raoul is the only character I can safely call a 'hot' guy. He's rich, handsome, charming, heroic, brave, kind and caring-- the perfect Prince Charming. Ahhhhh.

Anyway, about the interference, wouldn't you interfere if the person you loved was stalked by a deformed, masked murderer? Would this really happen:

Christine: Hello Raoul, just thought I'd tell you about my Angel...
Raoul: Angel?
Christine: You know, the one that sings to me every night and gives me voice lessons.
Raoul: Oh...THAT angel.
Christine: Yeah, he's not an angel, he's just some deformed psychotic guy with homicidal tendencies who's been spying on me behind my dressing room mirror for the past few years.
Raoul: Really? ...cool.

NO. Raoul loved Christine more than life itself, and obviously he'd want to protect her! And despite being the E/Cer that I am, I have to admit that Christine loved him in return.

[masquerading rose]

I know. If people would look at it that way, the way it needs to be looked at, they will see Erik is the villian, and Raoul is the hero. I completely agree with you about how Raoul interfered only to save Christine, not to cause trouble.

[Angel's Muse]

I personally refrain from calling either of the two a villain. Just because I like Raoul doesn't mean I'm not allowed to like Erik. Seeing the contrast between the two is quite interesting.

Aside from love, Raoul represented everything sweet, safe, familiar and normal to Christine. She'd known him from before, and loved him from before. It must have been a huge relief to see Raoul again after everything with Erik was getting so freaky.

[masquerading rose]

I know, but I didn't have a better word. I too, like Erik, and Raoul.

I think Raoul is perfect other than the fact that I don't see what he sees in Christine.

[Angel's Muse]

I'll briefly stray from the topic to outline Christine's good points:

Christine was a beautiful, naive young woman who has trouble growing up and letting go of fantasies. As Kay Erik described her, she was almost frighteningly childlike. However, there is also a determined, more grown up side of Christine that we admittedly do not see very often. She has a kind heart, and is unopinionated and shy. Her main flaw, in my opinion, is her inability to let go of the past.

[masquerading rose]

True. True. Very true.


Anyway, Raoul de Chagny...

Is the "de" in his name like telling us he's royalty or something? What's it for?

[More than Music]

If GerryErik looked like earlier versions of Erik, I'm not sure there would be a Raoul vs. Erik debate.
AMEN! Yes, yes. Amen.
Hey, hey, hey! Raoul did NOT interfere with Christine and Erik. Even when he first came on the scene, Christine and Erik were NOT an item.

Raoul is the only character I can safely call a 'hot' guy. He's rich, handsome, charming, heroic, brave, kind and caring-- the perfect Prince Charming. Ahhhhh.

Anyway, about the interference, wouldn't you interfere if the person you loved was stalked by a deformed, masked murderer? Would this really happen:

Christine: Hello Raoul, just thought I'd tell you about my Angel...
Raoul: Angel?
Christine: You know, the one that sings to me every night and gives me voice lessons.
Raoul: Oh...THAT angel.
Christine: Yeah, he's not an angel, he's just some deformed psychotic guy with homicidal tendencies who's been spying on me behind my dressing room mirror for the past few years.
Raoul: Really? ...cool.

NO. Raoul loved Christine more than life itself, and obviously he'd want to protect her! And despite being the E/Cer that I am, I have to admit that Christine loved him in return.
Good points there! Raoul did love her more than life itself... And I must bring up this statement for a moment: "Raoul is the only character I can safely call a 'hot' guy." Know what? I've said that many times before! I don't think I could say that about any other fiction character, or any other man for that matter! It's strange...

:p I like that little bit of dialogue there. ;) Very cute, and it does get the point across.
Anyway, Raoul de Chagny...

Is the "de" in his name like telling us he's royalty or something? What's it for?
The word "de" in French means "of". Raoul of Chagny. Raoul is of the Chagny family, a well-known noble family. It doesn't mean he's royalty, but it does show that he is noble, at least in my opinion.


Oh yes, and more of my opinion. I am a Raoul fan, a Raoul protector(usually an intelligent one), and the founder of a group called the 'Raoul Appreciators Club'. It's at MusicalFans(.net) if anyone's interested. :) Anyways, I usually work in small ways to help protect Raoul, and love to discuss opinions with other intelligent people.

I really don't know why I didn't come to this thread before!

[masquerading rose]

Basically, I love Raoul. I refuse to sit in a room with a "Raoul-hater" unless I have a LOT to say about Raoul that can protect him. All the people I know personally who don't like Raoul are huge Erik lovers. But they can't separte Gerad Butler and Erik. I don't like Erik that much, But I love Gerard Butler.Most of the "ral-haters" onlky use the movie as a reference.

[Mrs Nadir Khan]

I know I would rather have a Raoul than an Erik, that's for certain. But if you've read my posts in the DHR, you'll know that I don't think Raoul is perfect, which I am very thankful for. I mean, when you think about it, without his flaws of childishness and foolhardiness, he would be so unreallistically perfect. So basically, Raoul is very close to perfection, but far enough away from it to be loveable.

[Christine]

Raoul is awesome! Too bad there aren't anymore guys like him. This world needs gentlemen. I mean, how often do you come across a man who's always there for you, never cheats, can sword fight, is rich, responsible, and that handsome? Sure, he's not perfect, but close enough for the rest of us!

[Victoria]

Ugh

It's not that I hate him, it's just I've never been all too fond of him really.

I don't think he's a fop and doesn't deserve to me called so and whoever does is just too ignorant to understand the real depth of the story behind the characters.

I DO think though that he was a bit of a cry baby in the book but that's only one version...

Besides the fact that he's the one who ended up with Christine (I'm a strong E/C shipper) I don't have a problem with him at all.

Still don't like him, but I tolerate him.

[lindaleriel]

Where to start. I love Raoul. He was my favorite character from the first time I heard All I Ask of You. I quite simply do not understand how you could not love him. I could say that I can understand prefering Erik but that would be a lie - I really can't. Chalk it up to personality differences but I have never understood the alure of the bad boy.

Raoul is sweet, gentle, kind, heroic, brave, devoted, loyal. Once he realizes something strange is going on he tries very hard to understand what is going on in Christine's mind. Though he isn't always succesful, he does try - and respects her wishes most of the time (except when it seems clear that she is in way too much danger and far to blinded by the Phantom to let her call the shots - or when he is just being dense)

Frankly the worst that can be said about him is that he is a impetuous, naive, dense, lovesick, boy who sometimes acts and speaks before thinking and (in Leroux anyway - though it is fairly normal for the time and archetype) is rather melodramatic and weepy. Not too terrible as far as faults go. And certainly easier to live with day in and day out (especialy considering the worst will be tempered by maturity and lack of threat to the one he loves) - than faults like sociopathy, homicidal tendancies, rage issues, etc etc etc

And as for the argument that - Raoul forgot about her/ignored her for years until she became famous then suddenly wanted to marry her to catch some of her limelight.

1. He's been off at sea since he came to say goodbye because he was going off to sea - how was he supposed to have been around. Besides think of people you played with in grade school - how often do you think of them really, do you check in on them frequently? But say you ran into them somewhere and asked to get reaquainted then found out they were rich or famous - would that be your only motive - or would it be more about reconnecting with someone you once cared about.

2. The book even states that he loved her when he left but knew she could never be the Vicomtess - which seems to me to suggest that he wished he could make her said. So I find it highly unlikely he would just forget her. The fact that at this point years later he has matured enough to be willing to toss social convention for this long standing love I find very noble.

3. Marrying an opera star would not have raised his level in society, rather it would have signifigantly lowered it. There were (are?) laws in France preventing him from being disinherited (though Leroux does seem to suggest that he had given up the rights to his inheritance) so he would not have lost his money or his title - but social status would have bottomed out. The strange double standard of the time is that were she just his mistress (like his brother and Soreli) it would be viewed as nothing more than Rich boys being boys. Marrying her would have been a discrace. So to those who whine about him not noticing the ballet girls which somehow must mean he's only interested in her as a star - I say this. I see that as further proof of his integrity. He is not oggling the dancing girls looking for someone to slum it with - but when Christine is put right in front of his eyes where he has to look at her not as a group but by herself he has time to recognise her (remember this has been quite a few years, they doubtless both look quite abit different) and is thrilled - not just at her talent but that it is her.

Anyway I could go on and on (and I probably will add to this thread as I think of other things). I'm pleased to find that this particular Phan forum is a little move inteligent and subdued. Lots of Erik lovers of course (nothing wrong with that - he is the titular character after all and very interesting one at that) but mostly Erik lovers who can see Raoul as another interesting character and worthy advasary not "OMG that stupid Fop !!!!11!!"

Ok I promise I'm done... well, for now.

Viva le Viscomte!

[Hidden Away]

I think he's okay, but not the greatest guy in the world. I mean he just grabs the whatever (once it was flowers and then a wine bottle) from the managers (I never thought of which one) and gives it to Christine like he bought it personally for her. In the book he was going coo-coo after he shot the poor kitty! (NOOOOO!!!! I Wub kitty kats!!!!! NOOOOOO!!!!) anyways...He's an okay guy, he'd protect Christine, care for her, and all that mess that a lady wants. But as a woman I want adventure and dare...that's where he get's me dead in my tracks and then I sink in sinking sand and I go down with out trying.

A guy that has long hair (movie wise)seems very disturbing...I don't care about the times, I still am not in favor or such a style. Book he seemed too perfect and well...you get the point!

Basically Raoul a nice guy, just not to my favoring! Chrissy you can have him..he's all yours! hehe! (We all know she's happy about that!) hehe!

[More than Music]

Adventure? Dare? Are we speaking of the same man here? :?

Hey, it's all in the way you look at it, I suppose. I, personally, see him as very adventurous and daring, but hey. That's just me.


Elizabeth . I am as in love with you as much as a girl who is so obsessed with a man as I am can be with a girl that she has just met. Come and live with me and we will rule the world as queens. Chrissy will be there too. XD

That being said, Elizabeth is a genius and I agree with everything she said in her last post. ^,^

[masquerading rose]

I second your post, MtM! Yes, we shall rule the world. Mwahahahahahaha *cough*

Anyways, Gaston didn't intend Roul to be "perfect" or "gay" as some people say. Raoul, I think, is a just a guy, whose fallen head over heals for a woman he loves and would do anything for. I know Raoul would never accidently kill Christine and I KNOW Erik would.

Elizabeth pretty much described it for me.

[The Countess]

Raoul is begining to grow on me, I'll admit, but I'm more of the E/C shipper kind of phan. Raoul in general is perfectly fine though.

[More than Music]

Chances are, if you're not much of a Raoul fan, you're probably an E/C shipper. XD

I, personally, just can't seem to go against canon. ;)

But hey, to each their own.

[masquerading rose]

I can't go against canon usually...

I LOVE R/C it also reminds me of my relationship with my boyfriend. it's strong and even though quite a few of his friends want to date me, he will stick with me no matter what. And when I had my surgery, he did nothing but be suppotive. He puts me first and does everything a man should for the one he loves; everything Raoul does.

[sweet_intoxication]

Most people hate Raoul...not sure why but he did nothing wrong and only wanted to protect Christine, his true love and vice versa.

But Christine did make a good choice because Raoul isn't violent, he is a gentleman.

[masquerading rose]

Fiona,
That was short, sweet, and all-so true. Raoul loved Christine with all he had and more (And believe me, he had a lot). He only triend to help and it amkes no sense to me why people don't like him. Raoul is so quiet, shy, loving, loyal, devoted, commited, friendly, and brave. I want a Raoul.

[sweet_intoxication]

I think most girls do want a Raoul actually, including me but the reason why I think many people want an Erik is because we saw the movie/stage production/book from HIS perspective and he wasn't portrayed as "bad", just misunderstood very often and a murderer...then again, his childhood wasn't exactly great.

[Ingenuous Soprano]

Fiona,
That was short, sweet, and all-so true. Raoul loved Christine with all he had and more (And believe me, he had a lot). He only triend to help and it amkes no sense to me why people don't like him. Raoul is so quiet, shy, loving, loyal, devoted, commited, friendly, and brave. I want a Raoul.

So true. I want a Raoul... Sort of was in love with a boy who was Raoul-esque when I was little... Ah! L'amour...

I couldn't dream up another all around good man. Good natured, kind, caring, sweet, considerate. His sisters, aunt and brother raised him right. *sigh* He can play the violin too... Lovely.

I've never understood why people don't like him, probably never will.


As to Erik's being a murderer, we have to remember also that in Persia he performed the duties of an executioner for the monarch (Shah/Sultan... whatever you want to say). I have nothing to say about Paris, but Persia is, at least mostly, clean.

But of course, Christine (and I and the other Raoul fans) will always love Raoul.

[The Countess]

Heh, I even would like a Raoul. Heck, I'd just like a somebody :)

I must say, this thread is just a breath of fresh air from normal POTO characters. No "Erik is so hawt OMG" or "Erik is fugly and he should totally die". Nope, nothing but clean, wholesome Raoul.

[More than Music]

I know. I'm glad that we have a good number of Raoul phans who are mature! I mean, think about it, he's the Prince Charming of POTO.

Actually, I made a character much like him - a mix between him and Percy from The Scarlet Pimpernel - and he is so lovely. Everyone loves him, because he isn't flawless, but he's close enough that you can't really imagine him doing something wrong until he does. In that way, he is much like Raoul, at least in my opinion.

Not that I don't love looking at Raoul. I mean, I HAD to make this character look like him so that I could make banners of Patrick Wilson as Raoul. Lots of people don't think he looks good, or hate his hair in that film.... But I think he looks incredibly handsome - which SO fits for Raoul - and has good hair. I like that hair, so what. xD

[tiannangel]

I must admit Patrick Wilson is pretty dam goo looking, but Prince Charming's are very clichè.
I think that's the only reason I don't like Raoul very much. Also becuase Christine chose him instead of Erik...though I should be glad, which means Erik's up for the taking :D

[Ange de Musique]

I like Raoul. But that is about all I can say for him. :D The movie/book didn't flesh out his true character enough for me. My impression of him is that he is basically a pampered rich city boy. :p I DO like him, but compared to the Phantom, he is just a little...boring. :D

Laura

[tiannangel]

I think most people compared to Erik seems to dull by nature, his passion and intensity just is...overwhelmingly wonderful.
Raoul, No matter how good looking or handsome or loving can never compare to Erik.

[Madame le Courayer]

I can never see it lasting between Raoul and Christine...mostly because once she became a countess she would have to give up her music, the theater, her career. I don't know maybe thier love was worth it but it seemed to me that she and Erik could share a lot more than just passion and fire. They seem more like two halves of the same soul.
I don't think a rich titled aristocrat could ever understand or fully appreciate the artist in Christine.
I'm not bashing Raoul...I just don't see a realationship between these two totally different people working out. Something, somewhere, eventually would be missing...especially for her. I think they would have both turned out discontent.
Raoul is fine for an average girl. Not for Christine.
Ok, Raoul fans fire away! ;)

[The Countess]

Not a Raoul phan, and I like you too much to 'fire' at you ;). But do take notice that if Raoul married Christine, he probably would have been disinherrated and maybe even stripped of his title to avoid gossip and shame to the family. After all, opera ingues weren't highly thought of back then. People sometimes forget that Raoul would have been affected also, but it's a common misconnception.

[Madame le Courayer]

Thank you Viktoria. I like you as well and your post is thoughtfully and well written. I had actually thought of Raoul's being disinherited. It was more common than not back then...two of my ancestors were disinherited back in the nineteenth century for marrying against their parents' wishes...so I know it was done a lot.
That is exactly one of the reasons why Raoul might (not at first but later on) feel some discontent once the first flush of young love wore off. And Christine? Where would she fit into all this? Surely her husband's discontent would rub off on her as well. These are just the observations of a firm Erik/Christine shipper. I just think they were meant for each other...:)

[tiannangel]

Agrees.

I can see no other pair for those two except each other....
Don't you just hate it when the story ends so tragically?
I do...I cry almost every time I see the last part....*sobs*

[Madame le Courayer]

Read Carrie Hernandez's book Angel of Music and you'll see how the Leroux story couldn't end any other way. She is brilliant! I totally agree with her portrayal of Erik and Christine...it's not a romance novel type ending; it's more a marriage of true minds, like Shakespeare says:

Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments, love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds
Or bends with the remover to remove
Oh no! It is an ever fixed mark
That looks on tempests and is never shaken...

I love this sonnet and it puts me in mind of Erik and Christine. Like I said I feel that theirs was more of a soulful union than one of romantic love although there could be that too. Sorry for taking the focus off Raoul. I just realized this was his thread! :o He's a good guy...just not for our heroine!

[tiannangel]

ooo...

I must get that book! But I doubt I can find it anywhere over here, unless I look really hard and find it on the net XD

[masquerading rose]

What exactly does this have to do with the amazing Raoul? This thread is for discussing Raoul, not Erik and Christine's twisted romance in another book...

I can never see it lasting between Raoul and Christine...mostly because once she became a countess she would have to give up her music, the theater, her career. I don't know maybe thier love was worth it but it seemed to me that she and Erik could share a lot more than just passion and fire. They seem more like two halves of the same soul.
I don't think a rich titled aristocrat could ever understand or fully appreciate the artist in Christine.
I'm not bashing Raoul...I just don't see a realationship between these two totally different people working out. Something, somewhere, eventually would be missing...especially for her. I think they would have both turned out discontent.
Raoul is fine for an average girl. Not for Christine.
Ok, Raoul fans fire away!

Correction. If they weren't right for each other, then why did Raoul save her life in so many different versions? Why did he give up his title, knowing it would cause his family and him disgrace if he married a theatre woman? Because he loved her. Why do you think she left WITH him? Because he was safer than Erik, could provide more for her, and loved her more than erik could. Erik loved her for his own selfish reasons. Raoul gave up everything for Christine. The only thing erik gave up for Christine was time he wasn't using anyway.

And what do you mean by "average girl"? Christine was just as average as you or I. She was an opera singer (with very little talent until she was given much needed voice lessons). She had to make a hard choice in her life (don't we all?). She ran away from her fears and problems instead of facing h them right off the bat like she did in the end. She nothing about any of it until she had something to fight for (other than her innocence). She was so in love with her fantisies and the stories her father filled her head up with, she forgot to grow up until Erik practically corrupted her (which he admits to doing himself in Kay). She was average. Not speacial.

As for Raoul. Christine (who is apparenty special) deserves him. He almost gave up his life and hi shappiness for Christine's. He raised Erik's child in at least two different versions. He sacrificed his sex life with her in at least two versions. He sacrificed his happiness for Christine's. He loved her from the start.

[The Countess]

And loved her more than erik could. Erik loved her for his own selfish reasons. Raoul gave up everything for Christine. The only thing Erik gave up for Christine was time he wasn't using anyway.


I agreed with everything you said, but the following. I think that the fact that Erik died of love for Christine means something too. That's how much he loved her, he died because he knew that she would not happy with him. I wouldn't call that selfish either. He 'gave up' his life, which is a pretty big deal if you ask me. True, Erik was obsessed with Christine, but that didn't mean that he didn't love her at all. Fabulous Raoul even mentioned that he could never love her the way Erik did. I wouldn't say that a title and money is everything. Even if Christine had stayed with Erik, Raoul wouldn't have stopped loving her, just as Erik never stopped loving her either.

[Madame le Courayer]

Well I'm not really basing my opinions on any sequels that have been written. The fact of Raoul and Christine's sex life after marriage or his raising of Erik's child is pure imagination on the part of certain phanfic authors.
I am speaking solely of the Leroux version of the story. I feel that once the young love veneer wears off sometime your soul hungers for something more and this may have been the case for Christine.
Leaving Erik aside since this is Raoul's thread, I don't know that he did lose his title although it's possible. We really don't know what happened to R/C after the end of the Leroux novel...we simply are told they took a northbound train with Mama Valerius. The Meadows, Forsyth and Montgomery novels are "may have beens". I am simply stating that I just don't see it being a completely satisfiying union, that's all.

[masquerading rose]

Note: please excuse me if some sentences seem grammarically incorrect. It's late here and I'm feeling the side effects of not sleeping last night...

Actually, he did. He was accused for killing his own brother (although we all know it was that sneaky Erik). But Raoul's brother wouldn't have gotten killed if Raoul wasn't in love with Christine. It shows that not even family could stop Raoul's love for her.

I see it as satisfiying. Erik would want Christine for her voice and mostly nothing else. And also, Raoul was more in her age gruop. Erik was old enough to be her father, if not grandfather. I can't see Christine marrying a man that old and giving up her body to man of that age. Just saying.

However, I do think Christine loved Erik, just not how she loved Raoul. Erik pretended to be her angel of music to quench her thirst for fantisies and stories her father filled her head with. To me, she loved her father and angel of music. Not neccisarily Erik. I think her love was a misunderstanding of her own feelings (she tends to do that). I think what she really felt was pity. Erik lusted after her because he reminded her so strongly of his mother and thought that perhaps this untrained opera ingeniue could give him the love he missed out on...

And this is where Raoul comes in. He had loved her since he met her. And truely, young love from a choldhood sweetheart can last a lifetime. I know plenty of people who this is true with. Raoul could give her everything and more (and not just with money). Raoul came in for a second time and loved her still. He was ready to except the fact that Christine may or may not still love him. His ambition and determination was based off not only his passionate, undying love for Christine, but also his need to know. He needed to be certain of Christine's choice.

As for ALW!Raoul,
The line "No more talk of darkness" catches my eye. In this particular scene, Christine is refering to Erik's house as "dark". So Raoul is calling Erik "darkness". The line "Forget these wide eyed fears" states that Christine is truely firghtend of Erik, but musn't worry because Raoul is there and she can forget all about her worries and fears.
Now, think really hard on this (please don't be biased). Would you rather have a boyfriend who loved you for you and would always be there for you to love you forever and was there from the start? Or a man who shows up randomly in your mirror? Pretend you never saw or read Phantom. And you were faced with an older man (in this modern day) who wears a mask and lives in your mirror verses a man you knew since childhood and was completely open with you and hid nothing and lived in his own house. Who would you pick. Truthfully.

Now, I'm not saying Erik didn't have reason to be self conscious and afraid of revealing himself. He most certainly did. But Christine must have been suspiscious in some way.


Now, onto different, more upbeat subjects.
Which portrayal of Raoul is your favorite (please be nice. No saying "a dead one" or "one I don't ahve to look at". They're so unoriginal. I've heard them all before...)?

[Madame le Courayer]

I prefer Leroux's impetuous idiot to ALW's golden knight. :D

Sorry, I couldn't resist. BUt truly I do base all my assesments of the characters off of Leroux's book. To me all the rest are simply "what if's". Leroux is still the definitive. That said, I liked Phillippe a lot and was sorry he died...I know, Erik's fault. Phillippe seemed to be the glue that held the de Chagny's together. Remember Raoul was the petted and spoiled baby of the family...I guess that's why I don't find him so appealing. If all I had to go on was the ALW though, I'd have to say he's a great guy.

So, yeah, I prefer Leroux's portayal of Raoul...being an Erik fan and all, that Raoul is easier to caricature. He's impetuous and passionate, immature and dying to be the dashing hero. No, I do not really think him an idiot! ;)
The Leroux version is more realistic...ALW's version is very gothic and romantic, but not how I see Raoul. Leroux's Raoul reminds me of the girl (I can't think of her name!!!) in Northanger Abbey...except in his case, yes, the dangers were real and not in his imagination.

[The Countess]

Most Raoul's a fairly loveable, but my favorite is a lesser known one; the 1990 David Staller Raoul. The movie is posted up on youtube and I think that he's a clever mix of Leroux and ALW. He's brave, without being too Prince Charming, he has the certain squeezble idiotcey, and most importanlty he's real.

[masquerading rose]

No matter how much one hates Raoul, they must admit that there is always SOMETHING about him that made Christine choose him over Erik. There is always SOMETHING that will make him will every time. There is always SOMETHING about him that is loveable. You must admit. Believe me. I used to be an Erik lover/Raoul hater. But then I saw the light.

[The Countess]

Well the something could very well be just how the original was wrote and the tradition of keeping it that way. But to begin with, yes, there is definitly something special about him.

[tiannangel]

Hmm...just a random question on Patrick Wilson when playing Raoul:
did he actually grow his hair for the filing of the movie, or was it a wig?

I was watching it, and it didn't look like a wig..but of course, you never know it could be.

[More than Music]

'Twas a wig, though I (personally) LOVED the hair. ^.^

They made it look more real, in my opinion, than anyone gives it credit for. There's nothing stupid about the wig. Nothing at all. It was incredibly cute and very well fit the style of the time, which (Raoul being an aristocrat) made sense for his character.

I liked it! :D

[tiannangel]

The whole hair style made snese, but I don't think it was terribly good on Patrick Wilson.
For one thing, he looks a lot better without the long hair, and the wig made his hair seem really permed and conditioned....

[The Countess]

Alrighty ladies, we can discuss Patrick's awesome hair in his own thread. :D

Back on topic, this always has irked me. This is pretty much a universal question but how is his name exactly spelled? I was reading a phan phic (a nice one at that) that spelled his name Rauol but I've always spelled it Raoul. Which one is correct? I'd like to get in the habit of using the right spelling and not look so dumb :)

[More than Music]

It's Raoul. Some people accidentally spell it wrong without realizing it, but the proper spelling of his name is 'Raoul'. You were correct, and didn't look dumb at all. :)

It's not like the 'Vicount/Vicompte/Viscount' thing that I keep hearing about. XD

[tiannangel]

Vicount, Viscount, Vicomte are all the same...except Viscount is also really just a "Count", but another word for it.
Raoul is spelt "Raoul." People sometimes go by the sound of the word, instead of just checking it up, so you get the most stupidest typos.
eg: Roule, Raol, Raul, etc...

[The Countess]

Ha, don't forget Rawl (I seriouslly saw that one once). People always mess up stuff with Raoul. Poor guy.

Spam, spam, spam, sorry.

[MaskedMadame]

Anyways.. *cough* raoul's name is hard for some people *cough*

I think raoul is very underrated, he really is a good guy who is fighting for the love of his life (even though he spends more time on his hair and is not erik who is above all things wonderful, well in some versions) ok well you get my point, you gotta give raoul credit..

[More than Music]

I think raoul is very underrated, he really is a good guy who is fighting for the love of his life (even though he spends more time on his hair and is not erik who is above all things wonderful, well in some versions) ok well you get my point, you gotta give raoul credit..

'Spends more time on his hair'? :confused: Remind me what scene/chapter that's in? I can't remember it. Haven't seen it in a while, I guess.

Anyways, yes, Raoul deserves a bit more credit than a lot of people give him. He's not a pretty boy like lots of people say he is... I think that he's just well-mannered. His appearance effects what people think of his family, and in that time, he looked exceptionally snazzy.

But, I'm much more of a fan for a Prince Charming(NOT LIKE THE STUPID SHREK VERSION, GR) than most people these days. Don't get it, but okay.

[masquerading rose]

EXACTLY! He may have looked prim and proper at most times, but he was a Viscounte. He had to look that way. He was representing the de Chagny name. I mean who wants someone to look at them and go "ew... their family must be slackers..." and in all consideration, he acted up when it came to dressing "up to his brother's standards".

Also if you think about the setting of the story: it takes place in an opera house. When veiwing a production such as that, one is usually expected to wear nice clothes. And since most of the story that features raoul takes place AT THE OPERA HOUSE so of course he's going to look nice.

[MaskedMadame]

'Spends more time on his hair'? :confused: Remind me what scene/chapter that's in? I can't remember it. Haven't seen it in a while, I guess.

I was thinking of a raoul in the 1990 poto, but it depends on what raoul your thinking of.. ALW's raoul i think is the best one character wise.

[The Countess]

All the same, no Raoul is shown pampering himself (none that I've seen).This is the only time I'm going Raoul-defender here so you may want to quote me:

What really ticks me off that in the 04 film, people want others to stop snubbing Gerik about how his make-up was all the make-up department's fault and yet some turn around and snub Patrick about his hair being so girlish or "fopish". Grow up people! That was the make-up/hair department's fault as well. It's not Patrick's fault and is most certainly not the character of Raoul's fault because they both have no power over it. [/rant]

[angelgirl]

Ok, now on to my discussions of a few Raouls:

Leroux: I thought he was a little spoiled, whiny brat. But I liked the few little moments between him and Christine, especially when she wakes up in her dressing room after the performance.

ALW movie: Patrick Wilson was the person that actually made me like Raoul. I think of him whenever I watch the video for or listen to the new Taylor Swift song: "Love Story" He was the perfect Prince Charming. Good-looking, nice, willing to do anything to protect his girl. In short, I don't think Raoul deserves as much of the bashing as he's been getting.:rd1:
A.G.

[witch]

My thoughts are he knows what he wants and fights for it maybe not as stronly as Erik but for a guy that's rich and used to getting what he wants I think he is down to Earth.

He's cute, sweet and charming inthe movies as for the ones in the play I can't say as I've never seen them. But the one in the movie really potray the "gentlemen" of that time.

[The Countess]

It's hard to say that Raoul didn't fight for want he wants more stronger than Erik because Erik was insane while Raoul was not.

[The Countess]

^ Wow, this was some time ago. ^

I'd like to discuss a topic brought up in the Phantom thread: Why are people more sympathetic for Erik than Raoul?

The obvious reason is the ending. Erik technically lost in a sense in the end. Raoul got the girl. The end. Another part is of Raoul's looks. Raoul is handsome and Erik definitly is not. More sympathy for Erik. But why not sympathize for Raoul? As I recall, he was an orphan with a very over-bearing brother who got himself killed thinking that Raoul was up to some kind of shenanigan. The entire experiance probably left him very emotionly scared also.

Just my thoughts, any more input?

[masquerading rose]

Also, poor Raoul wasn't as brave as he hoped he was or needed to be, and he knew that. So he tried. Also Christine kind of betrayed him, just as she did Erik. Also, as I brought up in another thread, Erik is the main character and we tend to sympathize with him more because of this reason.

And again, I must say I agree with Viktoria. You know, I've decided that I should just make I AGREE WITH VIKY my new signature. haha.

[The Countess]

Yes, good point. I mean it's not like he was cut out really for saving anyone. True, he was in the navy, but I don't think that he ever even grasped the idea that another life could be in his hands let alone the life of his loved one. Poor Raoul...

Ha, if you must Chrissy but I do tend to agree with many of your ideas as well.

[Hidden Away]

Okay so years have past and opinions change. I'm going to say that I don't favor Raoul or Erik now, but I do find Erik more interesting just because he writes music and I say, I love music! It's my anti-drug.

Back to Raoul, he's a great guy for my other friends who are weird and only listen to country/rap/rock and that music just gets tiring after a while. So they prefer Raoul and I'm fine with that.
I've nothing against him.
He is a guy that is independent and rather dashing, I mean if there was no Phantom of the Opera I would see what's he's up to, but since it's called Phantom of the Opera.

Steve Barton is my favorite next Gaston's version of Raoul. Other Broadway Raouls, I just don't know their name ;)

[The Countess]

Yay! Welcome to the dark side, m'dear. Hurrary for not bashing Raoul! Now if only we can convince all those pesky Gerik phans...

Strangley enough, Leroux!Raoul is often the most hated Raoul of them all. He's often called a cry baby or a sissy which isn't fair. I'd like to see anyone who calls him that go through Erik's torture chamber and not cry. Idiots...

[A_Single_Rose]

"Cry baby" and "sissy" are harsh. Darn Raoul haters.

He seemed a bit naive, though, but not clueless. I found his near-obsession with Christine to be a bit annoying, but it wasn't as unhealthy as Erik's obsession. Poor Raoul. To me, he came off as a confused little boy in the novel most of the time. ALW turned him into Prince Charming. If Raould was in between Leroux and ALW Raoul, that would be ideal.

[The Countess]

Right, at least he had flaws in book (controlling, trust issues, not the bravest person) but I think their goal was to make the complete opposite of Erik so it would a more good vs. evil thing.

[Hidden Away]

so basically, from my POV--i know I'm randomly breaking in--Raoul is 'perfect' in the musical...awkward for me.

I personally like the Raoul that Tim Martin Gleason has created--Yes VEGAS!--but then again I love the Kay Raoul...just because.

[The Countess]

I've see TGM as Raoul only on youtube but from what I've gathered, his Raoul comes across as angry to me. It could be an interesting interpretation of the role, considering that Raoul wasn't necessarily happy in most scenes, but it mostly certainly wasn't what I was used to.

The really liked Ryan Silverman's portrayal, as I've said. He came off as strong and protecting and the audience couldn't help but root for him. Of course, I was looking at Howard <3.

[Hidden Away]

I didn't see him as anger, but protective of Christine's well being. He was the most dashing of all the Raouls’ I’ve seen. Which were only a few when talking about Youtube and real life. He was very sweet and sensitive towards her mourning for her father, and angry at Erik—duh!

[Hidden Away]

I hate to double post, but seriously this is important! I have noticed that all the men that I see facial perfect for the part only actor and all the men that sound perfect don't fit the handsome boyish face...darn it!

Like Aaron Eckhart...he looks like a Raoul to me, but heck I doubt he sings...

Josh Groban sounds like the part, but hey does he act?

See what I mean??? *hids from thrown rocks*

[operaghost94]

Raoul is blamed too much for Christine and the Phantom not being together. After, if he hadn't stepped into the scene, Christine and Erik would most likely have become one, right?

First: I don't think Raoul knew that Christine was at this Opera... did he? (not sure)

Second: He. Can't. Make. Christine's. Decisions. For. Her. :P Okay?

He's okay, I guess. I mean, I wouldn't have chosen either him OR Erik... Read more about that in the PHANTOM section of these forums.

[Hidden Away]

True, true so so, true :)

Your First Point: He didn't know he was surprised to see her at the Gala, and he was obviously happy.

Second: Yes yes! He is a Viscount but that doesn't mean that he can control women...only Erik can with his mind powers... Hah!

I like your thoughts, just like you I can't really side with either...they both have points and just like Emmy Rossum said, they both are trying choices...

[Eriks_heart]

OK (the moment everyone dreads, lol jk) my thoughts of Raoul......

Well......Raoul really is a good guy, but (there's that nasty little word lol) to me, he's too feminine. He was raised by his aunts, I understand that, but, should he really look that......well.....girlie? I'm sure Leroux had portrayed him differently in the book ( I read it, loved it, but don't remember much of it sadly) but even then he acted a little to femmish.

True he is protective, and true he's very much the gentleman (although I wouldn't consider it a gentlemanly move if him and Daae were on the roof kissing) but (it appears again....I think I may be way to biased for this one) he should have approached everything differently. He shouldn't have used her to get to Erik, even if it seemed the only way.....

Yes I do believe I am way to biased..........

[The Countess]

Femmine? You jest! The man was a sailor and probably completly muscular. I don't call that "girlie". And how can he helps how he looks? It's not that he applies lip gloss throughout the novel or feathers his hair. He was that way to make him look vastly more innocent than Erik. Symbolism, learn to use it.

How does he act femmine? Sure, he cries, but only when he thinks the person that he loves and he is going to die. Wouldn't anyone do the same? No one can "take it like a man" in a situation like that. If you think that a man who cries is femmine, than Erik must be twice so!

[Eriks_heart]

Well, granted he was a sailor, but not all sailors are muscular. I've been around enough to know, and back in those times, there really wasn't anything about weight that they were concerned about. And granted he doesn't do that, lip gloss wasn't around back then. Lipstick, yes, gloss no. And I do know symbolism, and its not a matter of using it, its a matter of applying it. And also, its the way he presents himself. True he goes after Christine every time, but he portrays himself as weak, and weak minded. When he cries, its more of a resolution that he's ready to give up, even though he will chase after her, in his mind he's already lost. Granted he doesn't have to act uber macho, but he should at least have stronger convictions of what he believes in.

And how is he feminine you ask, well its how he dresses, its to....dainty. And if he's going to have long hair, have it pulled back in a queue at least. He really doesn't need all those ruffles. Moderation. I've seen enough attire from that time period to know what options there were as far as men's wear goes. And there were few men who could pull off that many ruffles!

But to each their own.

[The Countess]

I was joking about the lip gloss bit. It's an unfortunate and common reference to Raoul's character and being.

Weak, weak-minded, all the things you stated are how Raoul "portrays" himself. Well, that's how he is and that's his character. He is weak and weak-minded. As for the crying, to be honest I'd rather have a man who cries at defeat than one who does so on human contact every waking hour of the day. Raoul had a right to cry. The next time you're in a torture chamber that's slowly baking you to death, let's see you stop and think and portray yourself in a stronger way.

As for his dress, he was expected to do so. He was a Vicomte for crying out loud! I think that you're making a reference to the movie version of Raoul with this argument, but obviously the decision of Raoul's appearance was not by the character himself but the costume department. In the musical, he has nicely chopped hair and a charming wardrobe. The movie isn't the best source to draw your characterizations from in my opinion, if that is what you were speaking of.

[commandermookie]

Raoul; he's often considered the 'bad guy' of Phantom because 'it was his fault that Christine didn't go with Erik'.

Well, I personally like Raoul. I don't know it is with society these days. People think that the 'bad guy' is cool. Bad people are BAD. Erik was a murderer; Raoul would have given up his life so Christine wouldn't have to live with him. I'd say that's very touching, wouldn't you.

Raoul also shows his emotions. You gotta love a guy who isn't afraid to cry.

By the way, Raoul is totally not gay, me thinks.

[Hidden Away]

Well it's not a man's fault for loving a woman...it's definitely not a man's fault if he gets the girl that someone guy wanted.

Fact of sad life. The guy will get a girl, but some other guy will be sad to see her go away...or some female will feel deceived if they see their secret crush leave with that girl.

Okay so after, going through this all mentally (keep in mind I'm still sick), I think that Raoul has been the neutralizer here.

Phantom's world...very fantastic, beautiful and an entire fantasy of its own. Raoul reminds Christine that what is in that world could hurt her (in the broad scale of things). You know what I mean?

If I hear another girl say that Raoul is gay I just might go all punjab on them...i used to think that and it was below ignorant of me to say so.I admit that, without holding back.

[Edith]

I have never once said Raoul wasy gay but I honestly can admit I had at one point thought I should, myself, punjab him for many of my fangirl-ish reasons but now I look back and say I was such a... B-atch. A... I can't even say it. There are too many young ones browsing the internet randomly these days.

I agree with you, Patricia, it definately was not Raoul's fault he fell in love with Christine. Especially after having spent so much time with her before her father died. Maybe people have control over their actions, thoughts, and words, but I have never met a person who claims complete control over their feelings. A person can say one thing but inside them they know they feel the opposite. Which is onlly normal, you might not want people to know you fell in love so you say you haven't and never would (I am very guilty of this, for years. I admit.). But anyways...

It also isn't Raoul's fault that Christine ended up with him in the end. It was Christine's choice. She had the complete say in that one moment! And with Erik's murdering and such jealousy that drove Christine to tears before Don Juan Triumphant, it wasn't hard for Christine to choose whether it was out of love or fear (though if it were fear I'm pretty sure her last name would not be "Changy" in the end).

But while you other Christine/Erik majors go get your knives, guns, and lassos to kill me, note that she still gave Erik a kiss of compassion and love in the end (ALW, still have yet to finish both novels. Too scared! I don't want it to end! >.<). So Raoul did not completely steal her away, she still might have had feelings for Erik in the end, but living with a man that killed too many and striked fear into her heart, was too much for her.

And so the childhood sweethearts trail off--BUT Christine does look back as they leave.
Basically this was barely all Raoul's fault. So I wonder, why do you still call him "gay" or "a fop". I mean maybe he was a bit of a marshmellow but why bash out on him to such an extent? Imagine if he weren't there--no Phantom of the Opera then! He was a vital character to the story! Why wish him death?

If any hater is reading this please feel free to explain! I'd love to hear your reasons.

[wandering child]

Although I love Erik completely, I've never hated Raoul. Maybe that has something to do with the fact that the first portrayal I saw of him showed him as a cute little dog. (For those of you who need that explained, it was an episode of Wishbone, a children's show about classic literature where the dog imagines himself as the hero). But anyway, I don't hate him, but I dislike some portrayals. In bothe Leroux and Kay he actually shot at Erik! In the Kay book he shot him in the back, albeit only a flesh wound. Keep in mind in this version Christine had made it clear to Raoul that she did care about Erik even though he frightened her, and it was in the back with Erik posing no threat to him at all at the time. I was extremely mad at Raoul for that, but he did raise Erik's child with love in the end, and it was clear that he came to respect Erik, so in that I feel he redeemed himself.

In Leroux he seemed almost as jealous as Erik, asking if Christine were still a "good girl" and saying he dispised her as a dishonest woman at the Masquarade ball. He said alot of other mean things to Christine then too. Still, everyone has said cruel things they don't mean at some point. And he did marry Christine even though with his rank it would be frowned on.

I like him best the way ALW shows him. In my opinion that version shows him as being more caring and gentle.

[Colonel Landa]

Um, Raoul was justified in shooting Erik - in Leroux, at least. I haven't read Kay.

Erik was probably filled with malicious intent when he stood on Raoul's balcony - that is, if he was there, but that's a different discussion entirely. Erik is a dangerous man and isn't against shedding a little blood. Yes, Raoul knew Christine cared for Erik, but that wouldn't (and didn't) stop Raoul from defending himself. If I were in Raoul's position, I probably would have actually tried to shoot Erik, too

[Edith]

Maybe alot of Erik phangirls might've freaked out and gotten pissed over Raoul Vicomte De Chagny (is it just me or does "Chagny" sound like a type of wine? Well anyways...) but in Leroux (as I have not read Kay's version yet) he actually had a slight right to shoot Erik for it seemed to him as if Christine's heart had been stolen from him and she'd come into her dressing room saying "Poor Unhappy Erik" when Raoul had been struck with some jealousy and was--at that point--a "Poor Unhappy Raoul".

Erik had driven him to almost complete madness and even got himself into a fight with Christine. He had his own rights to shoot Erik whether you enjoyed that or not (trust me I didn't either).

If I were Raoul I wouldn't have hesitated to shoot this person especially when "this person" seems to be two golden eyes standing out on my own balcony (well ok I might have been frightened to my wits and probably wouldn't have but if I weren't as weak as I am now..!).

But don't take me wrong, I still adore my--fine our--Angel of Music, Erik, I'm just giving out the smallest portion of my opinion thats not even well-written especially since I cannot choose the correct words at the moment.

[KChan88]

I find the entire scene of Raoul shooting at Erik on the balcony an interesting point to bring up because it's a fascinating scene. I know there's a debate as to whether or not Erik was actually there, but there WAS blood on the balcony, so I tend to think he was. Now, in my opinion, Raoul knew that Christine cared for Erik in a student/daughter type way, and I tend to think that he did respect that, especially after the fact. He could have easily put a price on Erik's head after all of it was over, but he didn't. Erik came to Raoul's window, for heaven sakes, with what I'm sure were not kind intentions. I'm quite sure Raoul had every right to defend himself. I mean, if he hadn't shot at Erik, it would have been similar to him not defending himself in the swordfight in the 2004 movie version. And besides, in Leroux Raoul is half mad trying to figure out the mystery surrounding Erik, so it doesn't surprise me he pulled out his gun.

And I mean, people get upset that Raoul shot at Erik, but Erik locked Raoul in a TORTURE chamber...and tried to strangle him in ALW...so I'm seriously doubting Erik showed up at Raoul's window just to watch the Vicomte sleep. What was Raoul supposed to do anyway, say "Oh sure, just come in and kill me?" I don't think so. I haven't read Kay, so I don't know what went on there, but this is my opinion.:spin2:

[xXphantomaddictedXx]

Not to change the subject, but I feel compelled to add my nickels and dimes here, too. Most phans know Erik saw Raoul as a competitor for Christine's attention, but did anyone ever think Raoul felt the same? Christine was two things -- a muse for Erik and Raoul's childhood sweetheart -- and that means both men were competing for her, albeit in different ways. Erik was competing to keep her as his muse for eternity and Raoul was competing to marry her. They may have had different sides, but Christine was the one thing that bound them together.

[KChan88]

As I did over in the thread about Erik, I agree with you again, Sarah! :ohappy: It has always been highly interesting to me that two very different men loved the same woman, albeit, as you said, in different ways. So many people say, "oh but Raoul would have found someone else," but I don't think it would have been that easy. Christine wasn't just some girl to Raoul: he truly, deeply, really loved her, and they'd had a deep connection since their childhood. And he, like Erik, feared losing Christine.

I think too, however, that not only was Raoul thinking of his own happiness in competing with Erik over Christine, but he was thinking of Christine's happiness. I believe Christine said it best in AIAOY: "All I want is freedom, a world with no more night. And you always beside me, to hold me and to hide me." Raoul could give her these things, could help her escape the unhappiness she'd had ever since her father died.

People so often villanize Raoul, but he and Erik were BOTH competitors for Christine's attention, so why does he get the short end of the stick? Yes, I'm a huge Raoul fan, but I do try to look at things objectively. If things had turned out differently, and Christine for some reason stayed with Erik, I really think Raoul would have been just as heartbroken as Erik was. I know that's a bold statement, but there it is. Anyways, I've rambled for long enough. :spin2:

[Raoulsgal0689]

Oh my goodness! Thank you for FINALLY saying that! I totally agree. Raoul would have never gotten over her. He literally says that he would die without her and he was willing to die before she had to spend her life in the darkness. Raoul was just as in love with Christine as Erik. I get very tired of people making him the bad guy just because he technically won in the end. There is no need for that!

[KChan88]

I'm so glad you agree, Lori!! I've never understood why people villanize Raoul just because he gets the girl in the end. He absolutely deserved Christine; he did anything and everything he could to help her, and was willing to die for her without a second thought. He's the Romantic Hero of the story. When did that suddenly start being a bad thing? Raoul loved Christine with all of his heart, mind, and soul, and absolutely NEVER gave any indication that he would suddenly change into a jerk as soon as they left the Phantom's lair. So many portray him in such an unfair way.

I know Erik loved Christine immensely, but I believe Raoul loved her just as much. It of course came across differently because the two men were as different as night and day. Like Erik, I don't believe Raoul would have gotten over Christine, because he'd loved her ever since they met as children, and that's just not something you forget about.