Walk in Christine's shoes... would you choose Phantom or Raoul? [Archive]

CountessDaae

08-11-2005, 03:50 PM

I would personally chose the phantom. I would rather live on the darker side of things. In some cases I would rather die at the hands of someone who loved me, then by some one who truely honest thought they loved me after they saw me on stage. Raoul came to Christine after he saw her on stage and in the begining when he was first introduced as the Patron of the opera house, you would think if someone cared about you that much, you would notice them right then and there on the spot not when they were on stage and heard the voice. They would remember the face.

The good guy always gets the girl in the end, which is never fair to the bad guy who truely loves the girl and would do anything for them. He killed for Christine. Some may call it maddess, murderous, or obsessed, however, how often to you come around a guy who would kill for you because they love you deep enough to not let their concious get in the way of their love for you. The phantom had only know a few thing in life. He was tortured as a child, made fun of. Isn't he allowed some happiness in life as well. I think so. Even during that time, he should have been treated as a normal person not a demon or a hideous beast. He was never treated right in the first place, and when christine came along, she treated him like a person/angel not a demon. She was mislead at times, however, she had to have feelings for him....she would never of gone down to the liar without her own concent even if she was casted by a spell or not.

So, i would chose the phantom instead of raoul. lol. to try and make a long story short. Raoul sometime seems too fake to me in his love for christine because it is the fairy tale..to me..lol.

phantoms_nemo

08-11-2005, 03:54 PM

I could deal with the fact that Erik was murderer because of the fact that, Christine is all that he loved. He would do anything for her. I woulnt mind having some one obsessing over me 24/7. I would have him I loved him, if I got to know the real Erik, not just the Phantom. Its what is on the inside, he must have a heart and a good soul. Raoul is stuck up with his money, but he is a good man. Christine understood how Erik felt deep down. If I were Christine, I would have chosen Erik

Luciana

08-13-2005, 08:21 AM

I would probably choose the Phantom. That sounds unrealistic, and I know it, but it's actually what I think I'd do. The Phantom needed Christine. Raoul was very handsome and could have gotten any girl he wanted with just a nod of his head.

I'd rather be needed then wonder if he settled (which is what I'm going to end up doing anyway.)

Christine Daaé

09-06-2005, 07:04 AM

Raoul is the safer choice. I know that. But Erik needs somebody, so . . .

I don't know. I honestly don't know. In some respects, I agree with Lizzie, but I really do think I could love Erik for who he is, simply because that's the kind of person I am.

So I'm not sure.

~ Zelda

opera_ghost_lives

09-19-2005, 01:13 PM

OO!! I know this one! THE PHANTOM!! Raoul is just so.....ugh! I do not like him....he may be safe....

but do you go with the one that loves you? Or the one that you love....

Also...i'd love him with me....because he's sweeter...and probably I would NEVER be Christine...because I'm not a soprano...for that matter.

But my choice...will forever, and always be: Erik....((Opera ghost!!))

Erik

09-19-2005, 02:11 PM

It's pretty tough..hmmm....so many factors to consider. First of all, you have Erik, The Pantom of the Opera, the Opera Ghost. He is sweet and loving, and could of easily, but didn't, take advantage of her. But he is someone who 'dreams of beauty' and someone to love that loves him back. That is Erik. But Christines only ever known him as the Phantom of the Opera, someone to be feared, and has been told of his sick and twisted mind, and has heard about murders and other such crimes.

Then Raoul comes along, someone she has history with. Someone who shares her sweetest memories and loves her. But then he's also rich, and nic enough. The thing that really irks me about him is that in the movie, during Twisted, he doesn't care what she thinks, he just wants Erik caught. This leads me to believe that Raoul is a control freak, and stubbourn and a bit....I don't know....my pity lies with Erik...Because if she spent so much time with Erik, then she would have seen the greatest things about him.

To sum it all up, I would have chosen Erik. But then, I know the whole story, and Christine never.

opera_ghost_lives

09-20-2005, 12:14 AM

Well....I just....love the Phantom in the movie...so sweet, and loving. The killing on the other hand...ah...if you watch the 1989 version, where the movie is rated "R". The Phantom skinned his victoms, and sewed it onto his face. Which, was pretty discusting, but....he scared me, and Raoul did die, but they renamed him, so he was Richard in that movie...

:cg: CARLOTTA!! ((sorry....but I love that out-fit...))

composer15

09-20-2005, 02:33 AM

Oh wow, that sounds sick, I have never seen that version of POTO, at least we all know that Erik isn't really that cruel, right? You explained the whole,"why Christine didn't go with the phantom" thing really nicely, Erik, I never really thought of it that way before. I wonder if there will be any Raoul obsessers that come to this thread, it would be a fun debate.

Erik

09-25-2005, 09:45 PM

Haha. Thanks, you can call me Sam, though, if you want. And the Fop-lovers are scared of us...hehe. We E/C shippers drove them away with our torches and pitchforks ^_^

[I joke, you Raoul lovers! We all love you!]

Phantomess

09-25-2005, 11:18 PM

Hmm.... an exceptionally tough question! I don't know. I might decide to live in secret in the theatre with the Phantom while carrying on my career as an opera singer... yes, that would work. Haha. :)

eriksayesha

10-11-2005, 06:47 PM

I would definitely choose Erik if I was transported into the Leroux or Kay books or the musical/movie. But if there were two guys with the same characteristics as Raoul and Erik in real life...I don't know...I'd like to think that I'd choose the Erik-guy, but I'm not sure...

Angel_Of_Music0_G

10-11-2005, 10:19 PM

Honsetly I would choose Erik.

Ms Christine Daae

10-18-2005, 04:49 AM

I would go with Erik. :mask:

Raoul is a rich, dull, pretty boy and life would be boring ;) Erik is exciting, intelligent and resourceful... and he is rich as well. We could sing together and go anywhere in the world we wanted.

Black Ribbon

11-04-2005, 09:47 PM

I would choose Erik, because he is mysterious and romantic, and he has a great passion for Christine, I mean so does Raoul, but not as much as Erik. Not that I don't like Raoul, it's just, in the book he was kind of childish. I don't know, I think that it's my astrological sign. I'm a cancer and they go really well with scorpio.

Ceridwen

11-05-2005, 07:42 PM

I would choose Erik. There's no logical reason really. Everything reasonable thinking is against him...but he's passionate, he's charming, aaaah do I need to say more?....:cool: :D

Raoulsgal0689

11-05-2005, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by Erik
[B]Haha. Thanks, you can call me Sam, though, if you want. And the Fop-lovers are scared of us...hehe. We E/C shippers drove them away with our torches and pitchforks ^_^

Actually... I'm not scared to stand up for Raoul!! And it is pretty obvious who I would choose! Just look at my user name for crying out loud!!

Ps... I know it was joke so please don't think I have no sense of humor!

down_with_eric14

11-13-2005, 06:42 PM

Not hard at all-Raoul! How can you people say that the phantom is all you want in a man? Here's what I want in a man: humor, respect, kindness, true love for me,happiness, a love for life,a want for children,some of my shared interests, a good education,and(hate to admit it, but it's true) relatively good looks. Let's see...Erik is not funny at all and kills people making jokes about him. He does not respect anyone- even his beloved, Christine, who wishes to leave, not to be captured and stuck with him forever. He kills people without thought. Yes, he loves Christine, but in a far more obsessive and scary way than I would want to be loved in. He is a depresses, angry man, and does not love his life or that of anyone else who he wants to kill. He is also ugly, sorry to say it. I don't know if he wants kids or is educated, but even if he was the other things cross him right off my list, noquestions asked. Raoul is the perfect guy, though-heroic, sweet, comforting, respectful, brave, kind, loving...oooh and kinda cute, too. If I was Christine, there wouldn't even be 2 choices- Raoul is number 1, definetly.

The Khanum

11-13-2005, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by down_with_eric14
How can you people say that the phantom is all you want in a man? Here's what I want in a man: humor, respect, kindness, true love for me,happiness, a love for life,a want for children,some of my shared interests, a good education,and(hate to admit it, but it's true) relatively good looks.

::Clears throat and starts through checklist::

-Humor. Raoul vs. Erik... Have you ever read Phantom by Susan Kay? The man has the most amazing sense of humor. I don't remember Raoul being funny...ever.

-Respect. Raoul: Uses Christine to lure Erik. Erik: In both books, he never even touches her. That might be bringing the 'respect' thing a bit too far.

-Kindness. Well...I suppose I can't really say anything here. But Erik is undeniably kind to both Christine and Nadir (usually...most of the time....) I'll give Raoul some props on this one.

-True Love. I can honestly say that I believe Erik is Christine's true love. I don't know how to support my reasoning, but...it just seems right. Raoul? ...No.

-Happiness. We don't really know which would make her truly happy. I can see both sides. On one hand, Raoul is...normal. On the other, Erik...isn't. Safety vs. Excitement, I suppose. There's not really an answer.

-A Love for Life. ...Isn't this sort of similar to true love? Again, Erik would undoubtedly love Christine throughout his life. No questions asked.

-Want for Children. ...Umm... Yeah, I dunno. I don't really want children... How do we know Christine would? And what's to say she and Erik wouldn't have offspring?

-Shared Interests. Are you kidding? In the book, Raoul couldn't even sing! What interests do they share? Interests are what bound Christine and Erik together to start with!

-Good Education. One word: Genius. Is Raoul a genius? ...I don't really think so. Especially in Leroux... ::Shakes head:: No offense, but the guy was a bit of an...idiot.

-Good Looks. Well, isn't this the heart of the issue? Yes, Erik is ugly... That's kind of the point.

P.S: This is in no way bashing anyone. These are just my views and opinions.

Erik

11-13-2005, 08:08 PM

Bahahaha!!!! I would like to back Miss KT Mae 100% on all of that.

Hahaha, KT, the education thingy made me laugh. Gah. I love it.

:D

The Khanum

11-13-2005, 08:34 PM

Well...it's true. And even if Raoul did have an education, there are some things you just can't fix. I mean, didn't Bush go to college? ...Sorry, wrong place, wrong time. ::Hangs head in shame:: Plus, Kay!Erik got a mighty fine education from Giovanni. (God rest his soul. ::Bows head:: )

By the way...you sort of spelled Erik's name wrong in your username/sig, down_with_eric. Erik with a "c" is much less sexy. ::Nods knowingly::

P.S: And if you haven't read Kay's Phantom, m'dear, I highly recommend it. It might expand your views of the character you so vehemently abhor.

composer15

11-13-2005, 10:53 PM

:: Dies on the floor and laughs uncontrollably ::

I agree with KT Mae and Sam on this one, you made some very good and correct points KT. Plus, Eric - is spelled EriK and no one should ever forget it!

But yes, in terms of who would be better for Christine, no one really knows except for Christine herself.

I beleive however that EriK is the most compassionate(besides the killings)most intelligent and attractive man there could ever possibly be. He is definatley not ugly in my book for I find his beauty to lie in his inner soul, not the outside form he was cursed with. He cares for Christine with more love then any man could ever posess (which is why he let her leave with Raoul in the end),dangerously obsessed is more the term.

He treats her with dignity and with gentle warmth, going with KT here, they both share the intrests of music and lonliness, if they ever were together, they could perhaps heal eachothers wounds. Raoul on the other hand, does not know of such hardship and didn't even notice her at first. He also risked her life trying to annihilate EriK!

Sorry for the rambilings but that statement just grabbed my heart, EriK doesn't deserve to die nor Raoul, I also don't think anyone should say such things for there are people here who might take it too seriously. But yes, these are just my opinions . . . so there we have it :)

sunshine

11-14-2005, 01:48 AM

Well I personaly would choose Erik because he is so much more beautiful on the inside. He has so many more levels of character then any one person could possibly have, and he is so complex that it makes him a much more interesting person. I'd rather have someone like him then a physicaly beautiful person. :)

Why So Silent

11-14-2005, 05:21 AM

So, KT...I heart your check list. ^_^

TWAS AMAZING. Except that children thing...where you said offspring? It sort of made them sound like mating dogs...or something like that T_T But anywho...

The safety VS excitement issue caught my eye. I thought that was a very good way to summarize the book, actually. It's pretty much what it comes down to.

And ::ahem:: Leroux!Raoul is an idiot. And (For good measure) Bush is too. But um...wrong thread. ^_^

down_with_eric14

11-15-2005, 08:32 PM

Yes, I'm back...i know you missed me. Actually, you all really hate me so scratch that. But I'm not about to change my views because of some weirdos I don't even know. So I stand by my views....Eric (notice the c...sorry about that) is a loser. Oh and the safety versus excitement thing? In my opinion, the entire point of being in love is being safe, stble and secure, but you can disagree. And Raoul is not and idiot....and just because Raoul doesn't love to sing like Christine doesn't mean that they don't share interests. I know I can't speak for Christine, but most people have more than one interest. Ok, thats all. TA-DA!!!! Oh wait...no its not. I also want to say that if there are any Raoul supporters out there to back me up, quit hiding in the shadows and POST!!!! I need help against all these murderer supporters. Ok, thats really all. Seriously this time. BUH-BYE!!!!!!!

The Khanum

11-15-2005, 09:04 PM

Nobody hates you for your opinions...most of us tastefully disagree, that's all. And there are Raoul supporters out there, but, just like most us Erik lovers, they aren't willing to back up statements that could be seen as offensive.

You are welcome to dislike Erik... I dislike Raoul, but I try not to offend anyone by it. I believe Raoul does lack a certain amount of intelligence, as Leroux so painstakingly points out in his novel. But I'm perfectly willing to point out his good points: He is obviously courageous, and he does care about Christine. He is not, as a whole, a bad person. But I heartily disagree with you if you think that Erik is. And I am a bit put off by your description of him as "an ugly idiot." Please note that he is sort of a...genius.

And if you find fault in the fact that he's ugly, I'm afraid that you've missed a big point in the story of the Phantom of the Opera.

P.S: Please refrain from calling us "weirdos." We prefer the term "obsessive phans."

sunshine

11-16-2005, 03:13 AM

I totaly agree with you Khanum :)

composer15

11-16-2005, 04:17 AM

Yes I agree too. We of course don't hate you, like KT said, "most of us tastefully disagree," but thats all. It's just that when you call us "weirdos" it really hits home if you know what I mean.

You can love Raoul all you like but don't bash us for liking Erik the way we do. We're all family here, or at least thats how I look at it, we each have our own opinions yet are respectful to one another.

I don't think you would like it if someone was talking about Raoul the way you're talking about Erik, so lets just all stop this nonsense.

Besides I STARTED this thread and I meant it to be a nice one, just everyones views on what CHRISTINE by the way, would do if you were her, think about where shes coming from and the story line.

P.S Caitrin, We welcome everyone to the board so please don't think us to be mean or as you put it "weirdos"

Phantompherak12

11-28-2005, 12:36 AM

Well I would have to choose the Phantom because he has done soo much for her or me. He taught her how to sing and gave her his music. That is a good deal. But then she has known Raoul since they were kids and they ate picnics in the attic and told stories and he even called her Little Lotte. Even though Raoul did all that stuff the Phantom gave her more in a weird way. She really understood him and loved him in another kind of love than the love that she had for Raoul and I guess the Phantom's love was stronger.

Red_Rose_of_Tears

12-03-2005, 01:14 AM

Hmm...ok...I'm gonna be a party pooper and say neither. :D I couldn't go off with Erik even if I did love him, because it just wouldn't be safe. He's a murderer, I just couldn't live my life happily. Who knows what would happen? And then I couldn't go with Roaul, cuz he's a Barbie haired fop, and unlike Christine I can see that! :cool:

Red_Rose_of_Tears

12-03-2005, 01:25 AM

Um, down_with_eric, you seriously need to change your ways.

Just because sombody isn't great looking doesn't mean that they're heartless or bad. Erik (with a K, dang it!!!) is actually a kind, caring person, very capable of love, and he truly does love Christine. If you judge someone by how they look you're seriously a bad person. Ever watched The Hunchback of Notre Dame? Beauty and the Beast? Really, you can't do that. :(

Besides, most beautiful people are really stuck up. I know I'm not great looking, but I'm very nice(or at least I try to be). Yeah, just standing up for what I believe in. :)

Love,
Red_Rose_of_Tears

P.S: Roaul has Barbie hair! :tongue:

angelofmusic9731

12-04-2005, 08:54 PM

I have to go with Raoul...which makes me sad. I love the phantom...he is what I want in a man and not Raoul...but, if I have to think of what I would do in a realistic situation...I'd run away from the Phantom screaming. He's a murderer and I wouldn't be able to get over that fact. But hey, Raoul isn't too bad of a second choice!

I would have to agrree with you on Roul not being to bad of a second choice. However the Phantom kille dfor Christine. Don't get me wrong I am def. not promoting it but, it shows that he is truly and completly in love with her. I think that I would go with the phantom because of his compassion for music and his lust for love.

Red_Rose369

12-04-2005, 11:46 PM

In my opinion the desicion between Raoul and Erik would be a tough choice, I like both of them but if I had to choose I would probably choose Raoul because he can provide Christine with things Erik can't and when most people think of Erik they think of Gerard Butler and I can't live with that. (sorry Gerry fans I just don't like him much or at all really)

I read on another site once that even though Erik was willing to die for Christine, Raoul was willing to live for her, and if Erik dies for her then there is no more Erik for her to choose, I'm sorry I would have to say Raoul.

Christine's Shadow

12-05-2005, 01:03 AM

You never really can think of what to do unless your in that position right at that moment. It's just such pressure can get to you, Raoul was safe and promised that he would never do anything to hurt her or anyone else.(yes, I'm thinking seriously for once about this) Erik killed for her approval and would "clear the stage" if Christine was hurt. Erik's connections with Christine were lustful and passionate, Raoul's connection was a simple love and it showed innosence. Erik was also pushing Christine into something she knew could never be as much as she cared for him. But I think if I were in her shoes it would have been Phantom especially after seeing him cry over the ring and how she kissed him.
:mask:

Christine Daaé

12-09-2005, 01:43 AM

Erik was willing to hurt others, including Christine, if he didn't get his way. Remember in the Leroux book, how he threatened to blow up the Opera House, along with Christine, if she didn't consent to be his wife? And then there the fact that, after she unmasked him, he would jerk her around by the hair and grab her wrists to make her face him.

However, though Raoul is rude and selfish at times, he would cut off his hand before hitting Christine with it.

I love Erik, but I can't see myself with someone like him. To paraphrase someone on PFN, Raoul is the perfect boyfriend, whereas there are shelters for women with boyfriends like Erik.

~ Zelda

SilverWolfBane

12-09-2005, 04:39 AM

in answer to ur question i would have gone with the phantom. now if were talking about the one from the movie, he is a handsome guy...like me. so thats why i would choose him. now if its the one from the book, i'd go with raoul. since the phantom in the book is supposed to be dead.
so thats my choice.

Mlle_Valerie

12-11-2005, 07:20 AM

Hmm that's a good question, non?

I'd go with the phantom, too, though. But then again, the book is more based on what actually happened, right? I mean it has all that evidence in the beginning about it so yeah. I guess I would choose Raoul come to think of it for the same reasons as you, Zelda. :)

Countess Cain

12-11-2005, 04:02 PM

For some reason, I thought I had responded to this topic. But I guess I didn't. What is wrong with me?!

Anyway... I'd choose Raoul, just knowing the type of guys I know in real life that I like. I'm basing it off of pure personality, by the way.

I like feeling safe. Erik, as awesome as he is, just isn't that secure. Yeah, he loves Christine more than anything. But there are several scenes in most versions of the story where he does threaten to do something to her. Or just scare her. He's got a bad temper, to say the least. And I guarantee that temper would stay with him even if the person he loved did stay with him. Raoul, on the other hand, never showed any traces of wanting to harm Christine. And I seriously doubt he'd become a wife beater if Christine had stayed with him.

Personally, to tell you all the truth... If I were Christine, I'd run off with The Persian/Nadir. Because Erik can be a bit nuts and Raoul can be a bit too romantic/boring.

*Nod.*

NEH

12-17-2005, 10:04 PM

Yello! I'm new here too, whoever started this thread (and subsequently would no longer be considered "new" - i'm just crapping away here!!) and i have always found the basis for my utter obsession with POTO and Erik (mmmmm) especially belongs soley to Christine's choice - it both infuriates and attracts me every time. As stupid as it sounds, as a viewer (of the 2004 film at least) i can't shake the anticipation at watching all that sexy and sensual chemistry b/w erik and chris whenever their together and simply opening up to eachother in whatever way (obviously not when he's threatening and she's cowering - although he's still attractive even then!!!). Point of no Return is my favourits song, and i often play the Down Once More kiss/es on slow-mo just to illustrate my point - which is:
SHE LOVED LOVED LOVED ERIK, and loved Rauol
(i hope the difference is clear!)
I understand the realistic sensibilty and assurance of going with good old Rauol (and in the original novel, i really did like the boy) but isn't that one of the underlying themes - safety over what your soul truly desires???
I SO WOULD HAVE BEEN WITH ERIK IF I HAD THE COURAGE!

composer15

12-18-2005, 02:18 AM

I may not be new anymore but I haven't been here in a while anyways so whats the difference? It's nice to meet ya and I love your explanation on this topic, and everyone knows what Christine's true desires were ::Wink:: :)

It's so hard to choose because who knows what we would do at the moment we are questioning? Although I say for sure ERIK! Do I truly mean it . . . I think so but I wonder often what I would truly decide?

Any Opinions?

NEH

12-18-2005, 07:04 AM

Mmmm.. its kinda tough sometimes to backup such a decision (even if is hpothetical and in relation to an entirely fitcional character!) when others view Erik as an insane monster, and as such see your admiration/yearning what-have-you (hehe) as amoral! It becomes so deeply tangled (or mabye this is just for me coz i'm wierd) and then you're thinking "am i a bad person for wanting this?" and "should you feel attraction to such a dark character?" and so on! And then you watch the film/musical/read the novels and think "WHAT THE HELL! - I LOVE ERIK!!!!" Stupid Chris!

composer15

12-21-2005, 04:45 PM

::Nods head in agreement:: Hahaha, I agree, sometimes I feel the exact same way but I just can't help but fall head over heals in love with the fictional character Erik! (Even though he's not real)

You know, although he has his dark side he also has a side that I believe all women want to see in a man. Caring, Talent, Gentleness, Handsome (in away that the eye might not see at first glance), a Love for you that is soooo strong it's dangerously obsessive, and much more.

So when you put all of the above, his dark side, and his childhood together, it all kind of evens out for the best. But most of all I think I find the darker side of things more attractive than a "Raoul" type of man, personality wise . . . and look :) I mean. Well you can disagree with me if you care to, it's just an opinon and my wonder.

Phantom's Sonnet

01-01-2006, 10:00 PM

If I was Christine I would of chosen the Phantom. The Phantom was pure of heart to let Christine leave Raoul. Plus, she seemed to understand the Phantom's compassion and love for her. He is a misunderstood character in my opinion that needs to be loved. Raoul or Phantom,I'm going with Erik hands down.

petrafarmer

01-02-2006, 01:21 AM

Oh boy. This is a no brainer for me. I like my men dark, handsome and mysterious. The phantom definitely.The time period it was set in saw many murders. There were always duels and swordfights. and look at who the phantom killed,they were not exactly innocents themselves.
Phantom all the way!!!

petrafarmer

01-02-2006, 01:38 AM

Wow I have to add something here! People, we are talking about a movie with make believe characters. Some of these posts are a bit heated. This is a fantasy. It's not like any of us are going to run off with either because they don't exist!!!!!

imported_Miss_Daae

01-02-2006, 10:03 PM

Um... This is a hard one... I think I'd chose The Phantom cause well He's so kind and I'd help him learn to control his anger.

Delilah

01-15-2006, 09:25 PM

I would have to say Erik (or the Phantom, depending on which version it is). Even with all of his problems, he seemed to just be more in love with her than Raoul, even though he did try to save her... but still, the Phantom let her and Raoul leave. Would Raoul have let her stay with the Phantom if it was her choice? Nobody really can know, I guess. Honestly, as sweet and caring (and RICH) as Raoul is, I think that her life would have been a bit more peaceful with the Phantom than it would have been with Raoul. After all, as far as we know, the Phantom doesn't get any papers and therefore she wouldn't have to deal with reading the story over and over and there would be nobody there to disturb them. :tp4:

FallenRose123

01-16-2006, 09:31 PM

If I was Christine I would so choose the Phantom. He thaught her how to sing. He didn't kill Raoul because he loved Christine. He did a lot of stuff that Raoul couldn't do for her. I woul have to choose the Phantom.

Christine Daaé

02-03-2006, 12:09 AM

Originally posted by angel of music 973
Unfortunatley Raoul is very good looking. He is very shallow i think. The phantom's love for Chrisstine was unconditional. He needed her to love him and he was a beautiful person on the inside(except for the murduring innocent people part). I would have to go with the phantom. He had very sexy qualities and raoul did not.

Raoul was not shallow at all. If that were true, he would not want to marry Christine at all.

Back then, singers and dancers were thought to be of "easy virtue" -- meaning anyone could get into bed with them. Raoul could have bought into this myth, and not be interested in Christine at all, for fear of ruining his reputation.

In Leroux, the gossip column featuring Raoul and Christine's engagement would have been very damaging to Raoul's and his brother Philippe's reputation. That is why Philippe -- who is the real shallow one -- forbid him to marry Christine. Raoul didn't care about his reputation, and went ahead to marry Christine anyway.

Singers were not the girls any sensible nobleman would marry, because they were reputed to be easy. Raoul, meanwhile, was willing to throw away his reputation, his inheritance, even his title, for Christine. He risked his life for Christine, when he went down to Erik's lair. He's not shallow, not in the least.

~ Zelda

Tullier

02-03-2006, 10:12 PM

I'd choose neither. Raoul's too boring, Phantom's too unstable.

I'd stay at the opera house, become a spinster and hang our with Mme. Giry. Maybe I would master some kind of martial art then hang out with Erik, too.

metafizzypop

02-21-2006, 05:45 AM

LOL!

Hey, don't give up on romance. You can always run off with one of the opera managers. After all, they made a fortune in the junk...er, scrap metal business, right?

As to what Christine should do, she should run off with the other manager. In fact, doesn't Firmin take a liking to her at the beginning of the movie when he asks Madame Giry who that stunning beauty is? His eyes, and commentary, light up when Giry tells him that Christine is an orphan, too.

But if Christine's choices are between Raoul and Erik.....hmmm. That's a tough one. I think that there really is only one solution. I think that Christine should marry Raoul and cheat on him with Erik. Why not? She can marry Raoul and have a family and a normal life with him, and Erik can be her....whatever you call a male mistress. Paramour, I guess. Or a side dish. Whatever. Hey, show biz people in those days had bad reputations. They were loose, everybody knew it, and Raoul knew what he was getting into. And Erik, well, he should be happy to get what he can.

Oh, that reminds me. I have something that the E/C people might want to check out. You might have found it already, if you're a hard-core POTO fan, but for those of you who haven't, it's worth a look. After you hit the link, scroll down the page a little.
http://www.phantomphan.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-3252

I'm not going to tell you what it is because some things just need to stand on their own.

@}---8---

composer15

02-21-2006, 11:14 AM

Hahaha! That is such a wonderful idea, why hadn't I thought of it?

You know I bet that she did have an affair with Erik we just don't know it(Kidding)

I must disagree about the whole manager thing. The only reason being is that Chrisitne would not go for either one of them in my opinon, her characters to innocent ::Cough Cough::
Well it's true and the only reason she went with Erik at first was because she thought he was her Angel of Music. But I'm no expert.

Oh and I've seen that pic before, very . . . . sexy isn't it? Thanks for posting it again though! Hehe :)

Angel of Music 28

02-23-2006, 11:04 PM

I would definitally choose the Phantom!! Oh the sexiness!

doristelford

05-24-2006, 05:59 PM

I would most certainly go for Erik if I were Christine. Nothing against Raoul, but he is a little too good to be true for me.

ForbiddenRomance

06-02-2006, 06:55 PM

I'm Kind of new here and this is my first thread so here it goes I was just wondering what you would do if you were in Christines shoes. To be more specific, would you have went with Raoul or Phantom? Would you have told the Phantom that you loved him or not. Finally, would you be more understanding or not. I would have been with the Phantom from the start but I can understand why someone would go with Raoul. I can't wait to here your responses and hope to get to know everyone well.

************************************************** **

I would of stayed with the Phantom...I think he love her more than Rauol did and needed her more.....

Christine Daaé

06-05-2006, 02:06 AM

The thing about Erik versus Raoul is that one must remember that Erik -- in all the various media forms of POTO -- is a predator.

Before you all jump on me, think about this: if you were faced with someone who listened in on your prayers and thoughts and figured out that you had some unresolved issues with your father -- who, by the way, convinced you that the "Angel of Music" was real and that he would send said angel to you -- and said someone took advantage of that, lying to you and claiming to be what he knew you wanted him to be . . . would you think he was a predator when you found out the truth?

After all, all I've just described as predatory behavior is exactly what Erik does. He listened in as Christine prayed to her father to send the Angel of Music to her, no? He knew that Christine wanted an Angel of Music to redeem her, so he pretended to be the Angel so that she would fall under his spell, right? He took advantage of her gullibility and her needs and her longings, am I correct?

That's exactly what predators do to young girls.

I came across an "Erik" in my life . . . someone who promised to be all I needed and wanted. Turned out he was a lying, manipulative b*stard. Like Erik.

So, just keep this in mind when you choose whom you'd rather be with.

~ Zelda

Minoru Inoue

06-05-2006, 03:28 AM

This is the question I've been looking for! My true response is, everything that Christine did I would have done exactly. Unintentionally, mind you. That's probably why I thought Emmy did such a good job as Christine in the movie -- she literally did every facial reaction and timed pause that I would have.

But in all matters of honesty, Christine's reactions are exactly as mine would have been -- to be lulled in by the passion of the Phantom, only to discover that he is not the angel I thought he was. Then the warm comfort of the boy-next-door, Raoul... I'd completely wind up with pretty boy Raoul, no question about it. Erik would just have been far too passionate for me now (which I think I'm at the real Christine's age now).

AAW0487

07-03-2006, 06:29 AM

I have read many versions of POTO, and I still must say Erik! Raoul is a great character and his love for Christine is wonderful, but he could find someone else if he wanted too! Erik probably never would find anyone else that would understand him the way Christine does. Erik would also be more likely to die because he has nothing else to live for. Where as Raoul would be very hurt and have a lot of heartache but would eventually move on.

In "The Phantom of Paris," which I am close to finishing. Christine chooses to go back to Erik when he's nearly dead and tells him she loves him just in time to save his life. She realizes that Raoul doesn't care for music the same way she does, and learns that she still loves Erik. She breaks it off with Raoul..and here's one of my favorite points to the book. To Raoul she says something along the lines of..."If I were ugly would you love me the way you do right now?" Sorry I dont have my book right beside me, but I know he isnt able to answer the question. This shows that Raoul also wants Christine for her talents as an Opera Singer and because she's gorgeous...but that's just in this book.

So who would I choose. I believe Erik. I would honestly have had to meet him myself and be able to have great conversations, a lot in common, and had a chance to really get to know one another. Then if I really fell in love with him. Yes I would tell him! And especially if he is like GErik I would defentally pick him! LoL! *wanders off to think of MOTN*

AngelicRose

07-08-2006, 03:55 AM

I'm not Christine, so I honestly can't answer that since I don't how she thinks or what she's been through. Watching everything is much simpler for us. But can you imagine living through all that?

If I were myself, and I had to choose then I would probably choose the Phantom. But that's my decision...it would probably be different if I were a different person (Christine).

I hope that makes sense.

northangel27

08-09-2006, 09:26 PM

Hmmm... What a great question. If I were Christine at the age she was when all this happened, then I would definitely have chosen Raoul. I was not mature enough at that age to love someone like Erik. His passion and the depth of his pain and woundedness would have completely unraveled me.

As I am now in my thirties, I would have to say that the decision would be a little more difficult. I have suffered loss, and fears, and the experience of being caged in such a way that it makes me better able to identify with those things in him. If I were in my forties, I am almost sure that I would choose Erik. It's really hard to explain why, but with life experience and suffering there comes a sort of maturity that makes loving Erik a little easier.

queen

09-13-2006, 04:59 PM

movie wise I would go with the phantom,but literature wise I wouldn't even consider it.

MystMoonstruck

04-12-2007, 09:48 PM

There's no doubt that I would have gone with Raoul because, if you consider the time period, he's the wisest choice. He's well-to-do, titled, gallant, kind, gentle, thoughtful, and, most of all, in love with Christine.

Some have said childhood friendship/love doesn't translate to love in adulthood, but this happens far more than they seem to realize. In fact, my parents were childhood sweethearts.

Anyway: I think I would like a handsome, attentive husband, children, a wonderful home, and lots of friends, as well as pretty clothes, jewelry, and parties. Christine has been living in rather poor surroundings, and, face it, she's as naive as you would expect a girl of that era to be. If I was that sort of girl, I would choose love, safety, and a full life instead of being kept in darkness by a man who had deceived me then kidnapped me. During this era, the couple might be expected to tour the Continent and be a part of society; they share a love of opera/theater; and, they're "of an age", with a shared past.

Think about it: Christine doesn't seem to be particularly bright. She believes, even as a young woman, in the Angel of Music. She lets this man take her beneath the Opera House. She falls for the Angel of Music thing again at the cemetery. A girl this gullible needs to be with someone much safer.

(I'm drawing completely from the musical/film. But, whatever the version, I'd stick with Raoul.)

PhAnToMeSs07

04-13-2007, 07:37 AM

Touche MystMoonStuck on the last part...she really isn't that bright. I think I would have noticed that I was "Not In Kansas Anymore" long before I reached his lair.

But anywho, that is not what the discussion is on. It's hard for me to say who I would choose because I have never been put in that situation. The question is: If you were in Christine’s shoes? But I will say right now...I am not Christine so some of my opinions and life lessons will be added into the equation. It’s hard for me not to base my decision on them even though I know Christine didn’t go through those things. I hope it’s okay but I read everyone’s response on this page and I would like to go off of what some of you said. I will quote you of course :) Northangel27 said something about not being mature enough for the kind of love Erik had to give and that is a very reasonable statement. I think Joel Schumacher’s words are perfect:

"I think Christine's relationship with Raoul is her romantic awakening as a teenager, but her pull towards the Phantom is a very sexual, very deep, very soulful union."

At sixteen, the latter of the two would be frightening; however, I must say given some things I have experienced in my teenage years, (which are almost over: I turn 18 in five months) I would have chose Erik. I believe I have said on this website before that I am very fortunate to have been given true love at a young age. At about 15 and a half/16, I fell in love with my best friend and I have never felt anything like it. People would say, “You are too young to love,” but that is not so. I knew it was love and so did he. His name as Isaac just so no one wonders when I use it in a minute. Then he died in a car accident and I can only pray that I will find that kind of love again.

Isaac made me feel a combination of what Christine had with Raoul and with Erik, and he was indeed my romantic and sexual awakening. (sorry to be rambling but I promise I will get to my point) The one thing that stood out to me about Isaac was this connection we had, I guess it could be called a “soulful union.” For Northangel27, her decision would be different now because over the years she has experienced loss and fears. Unfortunately, I have already suffered those things and I am yet to be 18.

As far as the real suffering that Erik has endured goes, I do not think I could relate to that but I know I would be very compassionate about it. Plus, on the not so serious side of things, I absolutely adore music in every shape, form, and fashion. So, that side of the Phantom has always attracted me more so than Raoul. So yes, I would chose Erik almost without a doubt.

Sorry for writing a book and putting so much personal stuff into it. I just can't help it. Writing, Music, and Singing are the keys to expression and I use them to my advantage! :)

phantoms_angelofmusic

04-21-2007, 11:56 PM

I would have to say that I would pick Erik, were I Christine. True, Christine and Raoul had a long bonding relationship, but Erik and Christine had passion and fire!

Operagrrl

04-24-2007, 10:31 PM

Wow, that would be such a tough choice!

I would choose Raoul, I guess. He and Christine really did love each other. No matter what Christine had chosen, the Phantom would have lost. Either way, he never would have had Christine. Her heart belonged to another, and the Phantom would have had as horrible a time because he would have known that Christine was with him against her will. I think love's only worthwhile when both partners feel the same way about each other. Poor Erik never had a chance!:(

However, I might have picked him if he cried before he delivered the ultimatum... who knows? I'm not Christine!;)

Isabella Delancy

04-28-2007, 05:29 PM

I'm a complete romantic type - I believe in the notion of true love, I believe there's someone out there who's destined for us. I believe Christine belonged, ultimately, with Erik. Raoul bored me, in the simplest sense of an explanation. It seemed to me like she was more of a prize (he saw her, thought she was attractive, and wanted to 'win' her, moreso when he realised Erik was devoted to her). I never sensed the same all consuming passion from him that emerged from Erik.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, don't get me wrong. Such intensity can be incredibly dangerous and we saw that through the murders The Phantom readily committed in a bid to make her the star attraction. But even with the murders (which I don't condone) Christine came across as understanding of Erik. They connected on more than a superficial level. She understood why he did what he did even when Raoul tried to tell her it was madness.

In the end, she seemed gripped by fear which drove her to Raoul's arms...that doesn't mean she ultimately made the right decision. It wasn't a question of lack of love, in my mind, but a fear and uncertainty of being with Erik that would never be present in the long term with Raoul.

*waves the Erik banner*

masquerading rose

06-01-2007, 06:59 PM

I would definatly choose Raoul. Not because I already adore him but because Erik kidnapped Christine, lied to her, tied her up, almost killed her, almost killed everyone in the opera house, was completly insane with no morals. The only plus side I can think of for Erik is the shmexy voice.
Raoul was kind, honest, intelligent, caring, loving, strong, brave... He risked his life to save Christine multiple times. He only wanted what was best for her. Erik would love her as long as she never took of his mask. Raoul loved her uncondtionally. I would DEFINATLY chose Raoul.

black roses

06-25-2007, 06:27 PM

Hi! I'm new here..Actually this is my first post..

Hhmm..It's a tough one..If I were Christine, I'd choose Raoul. Because given the circumstances, it's the wisest choice.. The safest choice.. Imagine it, you were captured by a person who deceived you..Someone you thought was your angel, but just a moment before your capture, you discovered that he is a beast (at least physically). A murderer who is obsessed to you. On the other hand, you have someone familiar. Your long-lost childhood friend who turned out to be an attractive man..And he risked his life to save you.. Every girl in her right mind would choose Raoul..But then again, maybe if she DID choose Raoul in the story/movie, both of them will be dead in the end..So if I were Christine and actually be able to forsee what will happen, maybe I will choose Erik... (I'm not good at explaining this..)

That is if I were Christine.. BUT, I myself, as a third person in this story who can see all of the aspect more toroughly, I will choose Erik. Simply because he truly loves Christine.. He loves Christine so much that he's willing to murder people for her. But more importantly, he loves Christine so much that he's willing to let her go even after she actually did choose him after Raoul both in the story and movie version, because he think that's what best for her.. Knowing someone loves her this much, every girl in her right mind would choose Erik.. That kind of love alone is enough to justified his past wrong doing.. (hey! I can't help that I'm hopelessly romantic!)

And I think, all that Erik asks of Christine is her acceptance..Her acceptance of his love and her love in return..To be loved in return but not necessarily have to have her physically.. With his past, the idea of someone love him as a human being is what he seek..He was like trapped in this madness frenzy when Christine found out his true face.. It was like showing her his past..So when Christine said she choose him, she love him -in spite of his face, his past- he snapped out of this madness.. He finally made peace with his past, with himself.. So he let her go, eventhough he knew it would kill him, but it was the least he could do to make sure that she's happy..That's his way express his love and thank you to Christine..And it makes him even more an endearing character..

Okay..I'm babbling now..I think, I already said too much..Hehe..

PS. About the aforementioned picture (I forgot who posted the link..sorry..), it can't be opened..Does anyone know what happen to it?

Phantom22

12-21-2007, 02:23 AM

Well now, if we really put ourselves in Christine's shoes I believe we all would of chosen Raoul.... I know... :P. I only say that because of the circumstances. Ultimately her heart belonged to the Phantom but the choice was too on the spot for her so of course she chose Raoul... her "protecter". If she had some more time to think it over we know who she would have chosen... ;) If Raoul have never come into the picture at all Christine would have fallen completely in love with Erik. *sigh*

Mrs Nadir Khan

12-29-2007, 01:17 AM

Um. *cough* I find it absolutely deranged that anyone thinks Christine could love Erik the way he wanted her to. She's frightened of him, and rightfully so. Do I believe Raoul is a passionate individual? Yes.

I mean, how could he be passion-less, and yet, be willing to risk his life for Christine? That is passion, devotion, and true love. That's what I'd want. Not some murderer who wants me for my body and voice. I mean, if you think about it, Erik's "love" is a creepy thing. We aren't talking about a nice, but ugly guy. We're talking about a sadistic, maddened, and ugly guy. That changes things a lot. On a superficial level, Christine was scared of him. On a deeper level, she was scared of him. What's there to get? It would have been an abusive relationship-- and it was at times. Erik got violent with her at times, but would then come crawling--quite literally-- back to her.

Raoul, meanwhile was her childhood friend. People often forget this. People tend to think he just admired her during "Think of Me" or whichever grand entrance she makes. Not true. As a boy, he blindly dove into the sea after her scarf. They played together, grew up side by side, until Raoul's brother shipped him off to the Navy. Does anyone honestly believe he never thought of her then? I'm sure he did.

I'd pick Raoul for security and for the love he gives. It's not obsessive, but who really wants an obsessive, violent husband?

marissamayhem

12-29-2007, 05:28 AM

This is a question that I've often asked myself. One day I think I'd pick Raoul. The next day it's Erik.

On the Raoul side, he's a man who loves Christine very deeply. He would give his life for her. (which he almost does many times.) He was willing to risk the fact that his family might abandon him for marrying a mere opera singer all for his love of Christine. The movie version of Raoul comes off as kind of superficial because he walks right past Christine and doesn't even recognize her until TOM, but I'm going completely with the book version so I can ignore that. :p Hopefully I'll stick to just Leroux's book but if I mention any Kay elements I can't be held responsible. :mask:

Anyways, all Raoul wanted was the protect Christine. She made Erik out to be this monster that she was frightened of so Raoul naturally wanted to protect her. I don't see anything wrong with that. Sure, he didn't truly understand the E/C relationship but that isn't his fault.

Although Raoul does have a negative side as well. While I was reading, there were soo many times that I wanted to jump inside the book and smack Raoul upside the head and tell him to quit the whining.

Raoul was safe, consistant, and comfortable for Christine. Erik was completely obsessed with her and she really didn't know how to handle that at all so she leaned on Raoul which I think made her love him even more. He was her safety net and her cushion to fall on when she felt lost in Erik.

Erik loved Christine very deeply as well. He depended on her in many aspects. As much as Raoul loved Christine, I don't think he could come close to loving and needing her as much as Erik did. Raoul could have had anyone but Erik needed Christine. Erik was a beautiful person and all he wanted was for someone to see it. Do I think that if Christine stayed with Erik and they lived happily ever after in the house on the lake that he would just magically be happy go lucky and not ever be violent or crazy? No. Someone who has been through what Erik has been forced to go through doesn't just wake up and decide that they're all better. Even with Christine's love and acceptance, he would still not be a fully functioning human being. Although, the only time he was truly violent with her was when she took off his mask and at that moment, he thought that he had lost any chance of her loving him. He reacted in the only way he knew. If Christine had chose him, I believe it would've been with the acceptance of how he looked so that he wouldn't feel threatened by his own face.

I do feel that Christine loved Erik though. Sorry, Kay quote coming through.. Christine - "I love you, Erik, I love you in so many different ways...but my love is the love of a child afraid to grow up. Children run away and hide when they meet a situation they can't face, when they see the dream is over and a terrifying reality beckons instead. My love is just a shoddy, broken little toy that I'm too ashamed to own." That is how I've always viewed Christine's love for Erik before I even read Kay's novel. I think when Christine chose Raoul, she chose love, but she also left love behind.

I always feel like Christine is in a constant state of being pulled in half. One half longs to be in the dark, full of music and passion while the other half wants to be in the light, with it's warmth and consistency. Both have their upsides and both have their downsides.

So who should she choose, according to me? Well, like I said, that decision changes with me like the wind so who knows. Sometimes I think it's better to live without reservations and just.. live like Christine would have had with Erik and music but other times I think it's better to do what's the safest choice for yourself.

This is a complicated question indeed. :confused:

ChristineJ16

01-21-2008, 07:47 PM

It's a hard choice. Raoul is her childhood friend, the safe, but boring choice. He would give her security with his wealth. Erik is her dark angel, exciting, romantic, but dangerous as well. What kind of life can he really give her? Live down under the opera house forever? She loves them both, which also makes this hard as well. It's easy to choose Erik based on what we know from the stage show and movies. But the reality of it would be the total opposite. *sighs* Yeah, it's a hard choice.....

Hidden Away

02-16-2008, 07:05 AM

I would choose Erik. (why are people calling him the Phantom) Raoul needs to get a hair cut b/c that man lady of a god knows what, is scaring me. He know that, unless he didn't read the book b/c he didn't, that Erik can tell and hear mostly everything around the Opera. Odd, but interesting. My heart can completely relate to Erik for my heart is lonely, I was never loved in return, I live for music and such things...of course...cliches, cliches, i could go one but my computer time is over in five!

sweet_intoxication

03-23-2008, 11:30 PM

If I were Christine, I would pick Raoul because he's a gentleman, kind, brave, intelligent...and to add - rich. But not only that, he actually cared for Chrstine, risked his own life on many occassions...though I'm not quite sure why he decided to leave and come back with a sword and not use it during the Masquerade!

Raoul wasn't a murderer, Erik was. Erik had mental problems...Though he was a genius, unmistaken by many people - mysterious...a "dark seducer". That doll would definately scare me especially if I was a girl like Christine in the past...Society would have been different, Christine was very naiive in the opera house, she didn't seem scared around The Phantom, almost as if they had a special connection. She wasn't afraid to unmask him...well, perhaps she was, but she didn't show it until The Phantom scolded at her to give him back the mask!

So, overall, if I was Christine, I would have chosen Raoul as they were childhood friends and lovers afterall. Though in my position, I would pick The Phantom because he could not live without Christine and Christine was the person who kept him going.

masquerading rose

03-24-2008, 01:09 AM

Raoul, handsdown. He was sane, cute, brave, smart, and all around wonderful. Chrsiitne, thiugh not scared of Erik, was certainly scarecd of what he might do. He was unpredictable, and murderous. And besides, what other man other than Raoul would take in his enemy's child for the wife he loved and raised it as his own? I think that's so admirable and brave and unselfish. To give up a free life and to take in Erik's child because it was the right thing to do is so unselfish, and the epitome of wonderful. I can think of plenty of characters (in different books) who would have left Christine if they were in that position.

AnyRaouls, I would have picked Raoul in a heartbeat.

tiannangel

04-19-2008, 06:46 AM

I can't say this as often as I like:

Erik forever!
I know a lot of you would think to have an insane lover might not be the best choice, but it has always been Erik, and alwyas will be.
Because I am a Raoul hater.
Apologies to anyone who likes Raoul.

Madame le Courayer

04-19-2008, 07:11 AM

This is an easy question. I have asked it of myself since I was a child and first read the book and saw the musical.
I would have stayed and become the bride of Erik...in both. He didn't have much time left in the book...he was older than her and it probably would have been a short lived union anyway. Why not make the last years of the man who gave you your voice and career the happiest of his life? I would have made that sacrifice for Erik. I could have gone on singing and then after his death I would be a star and would have this wonderful legacy.
Would I have had such married to the Vicomte? No.
As the Vicomtesse...I would have had to adjust considerably to a life of which I had no clue, being the daughter of a traveling violinist and having had a rather bohemian childhood.
I think if Erik had had the love and devotion of Christine it would have made a difference to his character...no one had ever loved him. All he wanted was to be loved for himself. He had so much beauty on the inside...he was driven to commit horrible acts to protect himself. Nineteenth century Paris could be a cruel and superstitious place...no place for one such as Erik.
Enough explaining Erik, though...I would have stayed and that is that. I would have made his last days happy and then...who knows? I probably would have had a brilliant career and beautiful memories for the rest of my life. I may be waxing romantic...but there it is. :mask: No apologies.

Ange de Musique

04-25-2008, 04:08 AM

Erik. Without. A. Doubt. :D And no, I wouldn't choose Erik just because I'm an obsessive compulsive phan girl either. :p

I have always had a special place in my heart for the misunderstood and rejected people. Perhaps because I have often felt misunderstood and rejected myself in many situations. I am the type of person who usually becomes friends with the outsider in the social circle. Perhaps this is why I would choose Erik. I feel for him, and I know it sounds sappy, but it as though my soul has intertwined with his. Erik is my first love. :)

Laura

masquerading rose

05-21-2008, 01:29 AM

Laura,

I too have a special place in my heart for the misunderstood and rejected. But Erik was more than that. He was obsessive, unpredictable, drug-addicted, and often violent. I know due to the way I am and the way I was brought up, I would NOT feel comfortable or safe in that sort of situation. But that's jsut me.

IamErik771

05-21-2008, 01:35 PM

Wait, Erik was drug-addicted? When was . . . oh, right, in Susan Kay's novel. XD But I don't think Leroux intended for that to be a part of the character, and I'm not sure he'd have approved of that addition -- to me, it seems like kind of the "easy way out" in explaining why he turned out the way that he did. Kind of like making every abusive husband an alcoholic in films -- there are other reasons why people can be violent; they don't need to pick on booze all the time. XD

And wow . . . it looks like I haven't posted in this thread at all! But I'm fixing that now, I am. ^_^

As for me . . . I'm not sure. (And yes, I am a guy, but as the thread title stipulates, I'm putting myself in Christine's shoes. :D) On one hand, Raoul is sweet, safe, brave, and dependable (if not always the brightest tool in the shed). But on the other, Erik shared Christine's passion for her art and was the reason why she was successful -- if not for him, she wouldn't have been singing Marguerite's part in Faust (or Elissa's part in Hannibal, if you're looking at the ALW version), and Raoul might simply never have seen her again before leaving Paris with Philippe.

So I guess I can see both sides -- both men were in need of someone, and both of them were soulmates of Christine; just in different ways. While Raoul was her childhood sweetheart, Erik was her muse. And I think it's a bit unfair to call him a "predator" -- he had never been shown the slightest form of affection, and being as cut off from the rest of humanity as he was, I believe he really had no idea of just what was the "right" way to win Christine's heart. If he truly didn't know right from wrong, then can we really condemn any of his actions? I'm not sure we can.

nikki.phan

05-21-2008, 03:57 PM

I think this answer depends on some things.
If it were me I would have chosen Erik. but, If I were Christine i would have chosen Raoul. why? because Christine loved him. They were childhood sweethearts. I think she pitied Erik more than anything. Also Raoul is much safer than Erik. Erik was a murderer who threatened the man she loved. Why would someone leave the man they love for a murderer?

tiannangel

05-22-2008, 12:43 PM

I hafta agree. As much as I would love for Christine to stay with Erik, she was bound to choose Raoul.

If I was in her shoes, and faced with the same situation, keeping in mind the whole murder thing and slight craziness, I would go for the "safe" option, which is obviously Raoul.

But Erik will always be the one for hristine.

The Countess

05-23-2008, 02:42 AM

Realistically, Raoul. But taking to heart that Erik was going to drop dead in a matter of weeks in the book, I may have chosen Erik.

It also depends on what situation I was in, if I was born Christine Daae and completly oblivous to the entire POTO story, I would have gone with Raoul. BUT, if I was magically transported inside a bad phan phic and set back in time to 1881 Paris as Christine knowing exactly what was going to happen, I might have chosen Erik, only for pity's sake really. Do not misjudge me, I am NOT a Mary Sue *hiss*

Madame le Courayer

05-23-2008, 03:23 AM

Sorry to get off topic...but who is Mary Sue? I have seen this name before elsewhere in TPO and not in a good light! :confused:

masquerading rose

05-23-2008, 03:30 AM

A Mary Sue is someone who is perfect... For example: Is smart, pretty, with a tragic past, talented, has one one flaw, and some sort of magical power. Ask anyone who RP's. MAty Sue is NOT a compliment.

AnyRaouls, Viktoria makes a good point (but what else is new?). Erik was going to die anyways. Perhaps Erik out of pity's sake and then go to Raoul. Roaul is an accepting guy and would more likely than not take Christine back. Erik would ahve been dead and no one's heart would have been as badly bruised.

The Countess

05-23-2008, 03:48 AM

Exactly! Everyone wins then and maybe Christine would have redeemed herself more in the eyes of phans and to herself knowing that she didn't pretty much kill someone. That's my only tiff with Christine...

Madame le Courayer

05-23-2008, 03:55 AM

Ah...thank you Chrissy for the explanation.
Yes, I think the thing that saddens me is that, insane or no, Erik dies lonely and miserable. It breaks my heart.

Sigh....:mask:

masquerading rose

05-23-2008, 09:55 PM

He doesn't completely. Because Christine still loved him and he knew that. He died with her kiss upon his forehead. I don't call that miserable.

One of my big problems with erik is not only his insainity but the fact that he failed to realize all the good things that happend to him. He dwelled on the bad things (though they were many). He could have looked at the few good things that happend to him. For one: Christine. Although her love for him wasn't returned the way wanted it completely, she still loved him and pitied him. He wrote an opera (not he showed anyone it, but I'm sure it was okay). He was kissed by a woman, even engaged to her. Christine kept her promises to him.... instead of focusing on these things, he focuses on how everyone shunned him and that he's ugly.

[rant/]
Sorry to get off topic...

I've noticed more people have said that they would have chosen Raoul (if they were Christine). But then there was a small percentage who chose Erik. Think if you were really in this situation, who would you pick. I'm not saying Erik is the wrong choice, just not for me.

Madame le Courayer

05-24-2008, 05:12 AM

Erik was still a human being like Raoul, albeit insane. But his insanity doesn't mean he doesn't have the desires and wants and needs...utmost being the need to be loved. He doesn't want to look back fondly on his memories...he is too passionate a man for that. HE wants what every other normal man has and takes for granted...a love of his own. Sure he went about it the wrong way, but did he really have a model to follow, being such as he was?
Raoul is the safe one. On that I can agree, but I will never, never see him as the soul mate of Christine. Leroux's book ends so enigmatically, anything could have happened. I'd like to think she was at least there when Erik died and that she placed the ring on his finger. I would like to think she at least postponed her wedding (if she married Raoul) until after Erik's passing.
But in my heart of hearts, I (as Christine) would have chosen to stay. I would have given a year, a few months, whatever it took, to make his last moment his moment of redemption. And I think most of us deserve that. Erik is the right choice for me.
So I guess we can all politely agree to...disagree! ;)

masquerading rose

05-24-2008, 05:25 AM

I never said he wasn't human. I never said he didn't have the same desires as other people. What I said was that Erik didn't find his few good memories lasting.

But still in the end of the Leroux book, Erik was so far gone. He was insane and oblivious to his own sadness. He saw Christine as his wife so he didn't sie miserable. He LET Raoul have Christine. Sure it took awhile, but he eventually let them go. He could have just as easily of killed Raoul nad taken Christine for himself. It was an Erik-like thing to do and much easier on his part, but he didn't. Well why? Because Leroux intented this to be Erik's redemption scene. So I believe Erik died happy, knowing he was redeemed, even at the last moment. So Erik was in fact redeemed. And knowing Erik, even if Christine wanted to stay with him, Erik would have insisted she stayed with Raoul. Even Erik knew it was a safer, more lasting union for her to stay with Raoul. Erik died in bliss, for he knew Christine loved him and that he was redeemed. If I were Christine and knew this, I would have gone with Raoul anyways.

Madame le Courayer

05-24-2008, 05:36 AM

I get what you're saying Chrissy, about Erik's redemption. But you know the funny thing is I never saw it that way until I read Kay. I felt bereft for Erik after reading Leroux...I guess because he (Leroux) ended it with such a tragical pen if you know what I mean. Christine was with Erik when he died and I believe in Kay's telling of it he was assured of her love. Not really so with Leroux...but then that was a different type of novel.
Kay is the one that kind of gave me a glimmer of hope for Erik. But I still often use Leroux as my reference point when it comes to POTO despite all the different retelling and sequels out there.
BTW I am so glad this is a work of fiction we're talking about...it would be pretty depressing if it weren't! :(

cornholianphantomess

07-13-2008, 02:20 PM

Phantom all the way!He sings,writes music and other works,He's got all kinds of talent!He's beatifully tragic and(to me)hansome.He's misunderstood and he would love you to death.And I could go on and on and on.Raoul could get any girl he wanted.he tries to look like a hero so Christine will love him for his bravery.He's a good guy,but let's face it.he isn't suffering much but not having Christine.Christine was Erik's whole world!

The Countess

07-16-2008, 01:34 AM

But Erik was NOT handsome. And that's not just an opinion, that's a fact. It can be backed up with information and everything. I've said this before, if Erik did exsist, he wouldn't have looked like Gerik. Get real people.

It's true that Raoul could have probably got another girl if he wanted to, but the thing is he didn't want to. He loved Christine and only Christine. And what if Christine loved him for his bravery? Where's the fault in that? Besides, she probably loved him for more reasons than that.

masquerading rose

07-16-2008, 02:08 AM

I can totally agree with you there, Viktoria.
Raoul loved only Christine, and no one else. Sure the same thing with Erik but how would he know? He lived underground most of his life, for Pete's sake!
He might have loved Christine, but that loved turned into a lust for her and an obsesstion with her. I just think that's creepy.

I looked back through the book and if you go to pages 107-108, it has a description of erik. It says that Christine took off his mask and Erik grabbed her by the hair, threw her to the ground and insulted her. It says that he took her hand, dug her nails into his face and forced her to rip away dead skin from his face, revealing grey muscles and some bone.
As Christine told Roaul, Raoul says that he will kill Erik for hurting and insulting Christine. Notice, Raoul doesn't slap Christine out of anger as Erik did. But if someone messes with Christine, keeps her captive as Erik did, slap her, hurt her, insult her... Raoul will attack, but show undying love for Christine.
Does Erik seem all that safe now after reading my summary of the book and as handsome?

So hands down, I would go to Raoul in a heartbeat.

Madame le Courayer

07-16-2008, 02:48 AM

You see this is the problem I have with that demmed 2004 movie! :rolleyes:
While I love GB and all, the movie has dumbed down and sexed up the Phantom. Don't get me wrong: I am still an E/C shipper (see my reasons above) but not because he is handsome (he's not!) or dashing (hey that award goes to Raoul). The Leroux novel, the Kay novel and I think the stage musical all capture the essence of what Erik is supposed to be. I wish everyone who loves the movie would try to read Leroux and Kay. They would not regret it. They will make the characters in the movie seem so flat.
As for Christine and Erik, had she stayed with him, while I believe it would have been a soulful and fulfilling union, it wouldn't have been all swan beds and gondola rides. But I still choose Erik. ;) Not Gerik.

tiannangel

07-16-2008, 03:18 AM

Haha...the funny thing is, I don't think ALW liked Joel's casting of Gerry either.
It says in this quote:

"Well we'd just seen Gerry. I think he wanted somebody who had that authority and was handsome. The thing is, he's a big hunk isn't he? All I can say, if you look at his chat line, or the Phantom website, it's quite worrying. Because the girls really seem to love him." - Andrew Lloyd Webber (On his response to Joel's immediate connection with Butler)

I found that really hilarious :D:D
Don't you?
-------------------------------------------
Anyway, back on topic.
If it was me....

As I said before, realistically, I'd go for Raoul. Otherwise, Erik Erik ERIK~!
But which Erik would you personally prefer?
Musical, Stage, Leroux or Kay?
I would prefer KayErik...I have a particular fond attachment to him.

MaskedMadame

07-18-2008, 01:22 AM

^ i agree, the 2004 movie did not make erik ugly.I think he is attractive even with the deformity.

But by going with erik in away you give up the life you knew before.. i would go with him because it would make him happy.. because all he knew was pain. I would try my best. yeah it might be out of pitty but everyone deserves to be happy.

now what erik would i prefer
Kay, ALW and most of the stage eriks.. My #1 would be the 1990 tv erik because he is just so sweet and... *drools* who cares what he looks like, he was really so nice and kind to christine.

Madame le Courayer

07-18-2008, 03:04 AM

Well in Leroux and Kay (and in the Dance TV movie too if I'm not mistaken) he was dying at the end so (walking in Christine's shoes mind) I would have opted to stay with him and sacrifice a few weeks, perhaps a couple of months of my life to make his last days happy ones. Not that Erik was better than Raoul...he wasn't. Raoul was inately good and decent.
That may be why my sympathies lie so with Erik. Raoul had happiness gifted to him practically on a silver platter because of his very goodness. How could he ever lose in life?
But Erik...dark, wickedly dangerous, madly obsessed Erik...he was doomed from the day of his birth simply because of the superstitious and ignorant time into which he was born. Looking as he did his hopes for a normal life were practically nil.
That's why Leroux asks us at the end of the novel "shall we pity him?" I like how even the author himself reserves judgment on his own character and lets us, the readers, decide in our hearts. :mask:

Trix

08-04-2008, 06:12 AM

Hmmm putting this into perspective, and what I require in a relationship in real life...
It's hard to say honestly.

I'm someone who is a romantic at heart, but have a rather hard-ass exterior and minimal emotional connectivity with people. I prefer to live life with no obligations and strings attached, and freedom is ESSENTIAL for me. I can't deal with crowding, or un-needed concern, especially not obsession.

I think with Erik, I would run into a lot of issues, because although I am drawn to the weird, outcast-y people with dark histories and various emotional instabilities, I would feel crowded, like he was trying too hard to achieve something that could possibly happen over time by itself. I would feel pressured and above all forced to love him: Something I could NOT for all the money in the world deal with. However, I think that if things were handled properly, and such, I might just be able to do it. It makes me feel good to think that there's someone whose just as bizarre and dark as I can be.

Also, regarding Erik: My blank poker face and lack of outside emotional connection has been the downfall to many a relationship with me before. I can see myself having to constantly explain to Erik that I DO really care about him, and love him, even though he may not really be able to tell. And I hate having to explain that constantly...

Raoul though... he's also romantic. He's good looking, accomplished, and heroic.
But the thing is, none of these things really appeal to me much, and I think it's because most of them are values I don't really share...
I'm not an amazing, heroic, walking protaganist. I've done some baaad things to people, and especially myself. I've had issues with school, loyalty, drugs, alcohol... other vices. Things that I couldn't sit next to a happy, shiny person like Raoul, and feel good about. I suppose I'm self loathing to a certain degree, but I don't think I'd be able to live up to my standards of what I should be for someone like Raoul.
Also, I desire weirdness and quirk in my life. He doesn't really posess these qualities. I would find myself bored with him I think.

Soooo in the end, I think I would choose Erik, even though he's horrible and a meany sometimes...
I'm horrible and a meany too.
And we all just want to be loved, right?

angelgirl

10-11-2008, 01:11 AM

If I was Christine, I would DEFINETLY choose Raoul, because I would've realized by then what a horrible man Erik really was. So I definetly would've chosen Raoul. Bar none.

But then there's the obsessed Phan side of me saying, "Overlook everything! You would totally choose Erik, whether you were Christine or not!"
A.G.

darcimkire

10-11-2008, 01:53 AM

if i were christine, i would choose erik... he wants to be loved i'll give it to him... if it's the only way to save him from his sins, then i'll love him... everyone deserves to be loved, even people like erik

witch

07-15-2009, 02:31 AM

Hmm if I was her I would be..... confused. Each guy is different and speaks to me in different ways. Phantom loves music, is talented in the arts and I love those things there's also a hint of danger which I also like. Raoul reminds me of a knight would die for you, want to do anything for you.

As for whom I would choose I think in the long run Raoul.

Hidden Away

07-16-2009, 04:07 PM

Sadly I just might do the same thing. But then again I would maybe decide to just become a nun and forget about the to. (Ha! Like that would happen!)

Maybe I would bother with neither one of them. I find in myself that if I'm confused and I don't know what to do, I will just leave the premises for someone else to become caught into the rip tide. Perhaps, I could just be friend them both.
She could have chosen not to stay anywhere, but since she loved Raoul more, she obviously decided to play with Erik's emotions. Since in that situation, I think it's fine because he was in the right mind at all.

Pity is the harsh sense, but in all honestly we all do feel sorry for him. He's gone though a lot. Despite fates similar to his I don't think anyone else could suffer that much in that time era.

The Countess

07-17-2009, 05:59 PM

She could have chosen not to stay anywhere, but since she loved Raoul more, she obviously decided to play with Erik's emotions. Since in that situation, I think it's fine because he was in the right mind at all.

I never thought that Christine was maliciously out to hurt anyone, especially Erik. If anything, Erik was the one toying with her emotions. Though she did love Raoul, I believe that she still thought of Erik as her Angel of Music which was why she could never hate him, but only feel pity for him because of his deception and appearance.

As for the previous question, I would choose neither of the men. Erik is a crazed maniac with a powerful obsession and speaks to himself in thrid-person and Raoul is a high ranking boy with severe trust issues. I don't believe that either gentlemen would make good matches. I would go with Pampin, the fireman :P

Hidden Away

07-17-2009, 06:41 PM

With or without meaning to hurting him she did. But I think the blame could be on Erik. She was the one who thought that he could win her. It's what she did that made him think he had a chance. That's the sad thing, we see him thinking that he could spend forever with her and we know that it's not going to happen. It's just like Greek theater! :(
It's only in Erik's mind that Christine hurt him, sorry for being unclear.

EriklovesLea

07-19-2009, 03:34 AM

The Countess

07-30-2009, 08:59 PM

Sadly, we have been brought up to believe that looks are all important.

Unfortuantly, looks sometimes do matter. I'm sounding incredibly shallow, I know but think about it. Erik wasn't ugly, he was deformed. And I'm not talking about Gerry's little sunbrun. Deformed as in too horrifying to look at. I know that he couldn't help it or anything but I can't even imagine the stress and struggle of living with someone with a physical handicap, especially in the 1800s. I can understand if someone truely loved him why they stay, but no one did love Erik and that's what makes his story so tragic.

I agree with the fact that Christine wasn't mature enough to handle the situation (reminds me of Marie Antoinette in a way) but then again can you honestly say anyone could be?

EriklovesLea

07-31-2009, 07:48 PM

Yes, I can. I have seen many wonderful stories of seriously deformed people who have loving spouses. Recently there was a story of a soldier who was badly injored in Iraq. Instead of leaving him, his wife stayed by him, cleans him, wipes the drool from his mouth, and honours her vows of "till death do us part." Another woman's story I read, is married to a man whose 1/2 of his face is swollen twice the size of his other side-really gross if you are just looking at that. But she married him anyway, and he is beloved by all who know him, active in his church, loving father, etc. Ane the good side is incredibly handsome just like Gerry's Phantom.
Now what many of us see of Leroux' true Phantom is the one created by the 1925 movie and Lon Chaney. we don't know what he actually really looked like, we have to go by a description, and as we know from police descriptions, every one can vary.
Unfortunately, we have become a nation of people who glorify looks, talent, sporting ability and often refuse to see what is beneath all that cover.
Like Dale Evans wrote about her child, they are often "Angels in disguise."
Unfortunately many are too shallow to see beneath the outer wrapping and open the package.
Anne:rolleyes:

The Countess

07-31-2009, 08:06 PM

Unfortunately many are too shallow to see beneath the outer wrapping and open the package.
Anne:rolleyes:

That may be true with the stories you mentioned above. Those stories are about good people who got a happy ending. I'm glad that they did in all, but the thing with Erik was that he was not a good person. He didn't have a heart of gold hidden by an ugly exterior. No, this man robbed, lied, manipulated, and killed people. Yes, his music was beautiful which could reflect what his soul was truly like and there could have been a chance that there was some shread of good in him (which I believe there was) but the fact of the matter is that he never showed any good side of him. He never really made an attempt to be good until he met Christine. In short, Erik wasn't a good, sane, or even decent person. In the words of Christine, "it's in his soul that the true distortion lies."

operaghost94

09-25-2009, 02:59 PM

I couldn't care if the person I loved was deformed, or the handsomest person in the room! Seriously! The only reason I would care would be because of my loved one's feelings as he walked down the street with people staring at him!

I wouldn't choose Erik OR Raoul. Just go read my other posts in the PHANTOM, RAOUL, and CHRISTINE sections of these forums. :P :) (this is getting to be like... normal for me to write) :P

operaghost94

09-25-2009, 02:59 PM

Oh yeah, Anne, I LOVE your siggy. :)

The Countess

09-25-2009, 05:48 PM

Rachel, first off, welcome to the boards. Secondly, we frown on both spamming and double posting here. Please keep that in mind for the future.

I agree with what you say about not choosing either of them, but given the circumstances, I would choose Raoul. Depends on which version we're speaking of, though.

Esgaroth

09-29-2009, 06:59 AM

Sadly, we have been brought up to believe that looks are all important. As a mature woman, I could have easily chosen Erik, in fact I really did the second time she ripped his mask off. Poor darling. :crying:All he wanted was for someone to care for him. She was not mature enough to find the "man beneath the mask" or to accept him as he was.:tp6:
Even his mother hated him. Imagine going through that and suddenly at age 34 or so, he falls in love. He had no idea how to handle his feelings, but in the end, he did do the right thing and let her go. I know he found a much better woman.:aww:
Anne

I was just thinking that Laroux's book (Im in the process of reading it now) is a product of its time (I know youre going doh!) but from what little I remember studying about the Victorians was that it was a prevelant thought then that Great Beauty = Great Goodness...and that someone with physical deformities must be that way because of a deformed and wicked soul. Actually that sort of thinking goes back at least as far as the middle ages, but the Victorians seemed to like to explore the extremes of that concept. It shows up in fairy tales (the Red/Blue/Green book kind). The Victorians seemed to spend a great deal of energy trying to appear perfect and beautiful, so as to prove their Goodness and Acceptibility...but its all based on a basic human truth: we seek out beauty in our mates, and we recoil from the thought of becoming intimate (spiritually as well as physically) with the Not Beautiful. From what I understand, scientists view this as a genetic thing, in that we seek out beauty because beauty proves survivability and fertility.

I have to admit that I believe I would recoil from Erik...at first...but then if I had that kind of connection with him via music - regardless of how deceitfully it was formed - I would be hard pressed to be completely able to disconnect. I think the thing that saddens me about how Christine is with Erik is that if she had been more experienced in love and more mature in her relationships with people, she would have seen an opportunity to give him the love he wanted so desperately without it becoming an obsessive thing. I really liked what Gerry had to say about the Phantom how it really touched him because he could relate and that was how he saw the Phantom: was that everyone could relate to the pain and isolation that Erik felt. As someone with issues of abandonement herself, I feel particularly sensitive about Eric because by listening to what he has to say about himself and his response to Christine, he is loving her the only way he was ever taught and wants to hold onto it, because rejection means annihilation, just like his mother's rejection of him annihilated his True Self. Using Christine as a Mask was tragically sorrowful for me to witness, and a good portion of that is because I can relate.

If I were in Christine's shoes?? Eeeeee...when it gets right down to it, I think I cna understand her confusion. I think there is SO MUCH of Erik, despite the deceit and the terror, that she DOES connect to: music, isolation and feeling like she's the only one in the world who has the problems she has, missing a vital part of herself she can never recover. Like I said, if Christine had been mature enough to see beyond even her Pity, she'd have seen an opportunity to really grow. I think thats why so many of us keep saying she loves Erik: there are some connections there that would bloom so wonderfully if only he or she had been able to grasp it.

Actually, I think Im arguing that Erik needed an Older Woman to help him out and not some sweet thing in need of her First Puppy Love.

As for Raoul - well, at 20 I would have been mighty impressed by him, and would probably have chosen him simply because he would have been the best bet for the future I was thinking about at the time. Now? Id go with Erik, simply because I understand myself better now and would want the same for him.

EriklovesLea

09-30-2009, 08:47 PM

Welcome, Sharon. I have read several of your posts and really like your ideas.
I too feel that at Christine's age, Raoul would have been the choice, but as I am (shall we say) much older, I could see Erik's lonliness, longing and hurt soul. He needed love so much, and I wanted so to be the one to give it. Since that is not possible, I wrote my book.
I also read leroux, and even sympathized some for Erik there. I know how if you don't fit into the outward beauty pattern, and I definitely do not, you can be rejected, hurt, despised and ridiculed. So perhaps that was part of the reason I resonated with Erik. Gerry's portrayal was so real that I felt every emotion. I thought by my age I would never cry in a movie, but I did in this one. But I also feel it begs for a sequel. No sane person would want to sit back and wonder what happened to poor Erik. Did the Gendarmes catch him? Did he commit suicide? Did he leave Paris? Was he ever able to find someone who could look beyond his mistakes and love him?
Anyway, I will always feel Erik is a special person and I am so happy I finally saw this wonderful movie and became acquainted with others who feel the same.
Anne

A_Single_Rose

10-01-2009, 07:28 AM

Hm, while I do feel pity for Erik and certainly do have those phangirl moments where I daydream about being his Christine, I would ultimately say "No" to Erik. Though I find Raoul to be a little childish in Leroux's novel, he is a decent man that really cares for Christine.

Erik is simply unfit for a mature relationship. If course it can be argued that "the right woman" can change him for the better, but I find that doubtful. Erik is borderline insane and is used to power and control. He is manipulative and is used to having certain things done his way. For example, the managers replace Mme. Giry with that other woman, so Erik reacts by dropping the chandelier, subsequently killing the innocent woman. That is NOT how a socially stable person reacts to any situation. Erik resorts to destruction and murder to serve his own means.

I personally would not be able to bring myself to willingly choose a man like Erik over a man like Raoul. Yes, I give the man all the pity in the world, but I could never give my love to a madman over a gentleman.

MAHibbard

10-01-2009, 03:35 PM

Esgaroth

10-04-2009, 10:55 PM

For her circumstances, I agree that Christine made the right choice -- whether we're talking Leroux or ALW. Although Raoul has never been a favorite character of mine, he is what Christine really wants and needs, a good man who loves her. What is so wrong with that?

Leroux's Erik is borderline psychotic (or maybe over the borderline in some instances). Through much of the book, he shows no remorse for any of the catastrophes he has caused and even denies them. He is almost childlike in his disdain for what is considered socially accepted behavior. In fact, it isn't until the end of the book when he makes his confession to The Persian that we feel sorry for him, that he shows a true change of heart. Up until then, it was all about what made Erik happy, never about what he could do to make Christine happy.

In ALWs version, the Phantom offers fantasy and mystery to Christine, but nothing substantive. This is brought out even more in the '04 movie. This Phantom is not in love, he is obsessed. He has never developed emotionally from a willful adolescent. In short, he's a boy in a man's body. He does not know how to interact with others.

That being said, I still like to fantasize an E/C relationship. It's just that Erik has a lot of emotional growing up to do.

I agree with all your points...just want to add my two cents worth not so much to back them up but to put my own spin on them...

If I were Christine, who would I choose? Not sure that I wouldnt make the same choice she made in book/stage/movie - if I reflect back to how naive and inexperienced I was at that age (I am in my 40s). In fact there was a boy in my HS that did border on obsessiveness (please do not think this is bragging, this was a friendship that I "acquired" through another friend and so not one that I actively sought out.) - he was not at all that good looking either. I wouldn't have minded that so much, though, if he and I had had any kind of connection or understanding of one another...or if he'd any kind of talent to recommend himself. We shared *some* similar interests, but I never felt any kind of genuine connection to him...although I think he felt differently about that. I could never make up my mind if I liked him or not. On top of that, I was woefully naive about boys in general and how they thought and acted and so the intense interest he exhibited in me just added to the antipathy. It was uncomfortable, but then friends started telling me he had been stalking me and they were worried about his interest in me...and I could never really see why...and it was difficult for me to feel any sympathy because he was never completely honest when I confronted him or when I simply tried to avoid him.

That being my experience, I can see some differences in Christine's eyes, and I do wonder if I wouldnt have responded differently. For one, Erik was extremely talented; two, he and Christine had formed a connection - they both adored music and understood music together...regardless of how that bond was formed, I think thats important that they both understood something of each other that would have made the idea of forming a closer bond with him less repulsive. Three, Erik made no bones about his feelings for her - he was completely and utterly open and vulnerable to her. I think thats what really touches the rest of us: he didnt play those mind games as far as love was concerned. Whatever his feelings, even as immature as they might have begun with, they were completely from the heart and pure and open. Christine missed an opportunity to reach out to that. I may have missed an opportunity to reach out to that boy I knew but like Christine I was so inexperienced with the opposite sex and so confused and turned off by the idea of getting close to him that I didnt see any.

Having said all that, I really wonder at Christine choosing Raoul - while I can totally sympathise with wanting to go with someone familiar and safe and proven and someone who pledged to protect and provide for her, I dont know that Raoul would have continued to support her talent with music. Having won his prize, he probably would have felt it necessary for Christine to set it aside so she could go about the business of being his wife and the mother of his children...whereas Erik loved her so deeply and passionately...everything he did was to promote her beauty and talent as a singer and even if they continued to live under the the Opera Populaire (which I dont think could have happened after all those murders), I believe he would have continued to promote her and help her in her talent and career. I guess it was Christine's choice as to whether or not she wanted to live for the Opera or live for another man. I think Erik offered her that potential and thats why it was so seductive. Its true Erik needed her - Christine was a fulfillment for him that he'd never known before, a replacement mother figure and a way to make sure people knew he existed - but would Raoul have been as willing to put Christine in a position so that her talent had the best chance to grow? The way I see it, Raoul effectively ushered Christine into a different kind of cave - one in which she had to acquire the Mask of Motherhood and Wifehood and the light of her own Music was dampened. I wonder if Erik didnt see that and it killed him to think that would happen.

Another question I have: I think we could easily surmise that Christine 'sold out' for the safe route, but would she have been able to stop Erik from killing those who got in the way of her becoming a prima donna if she had remained with him? Maybe Raoul DID continue to encourage her music, but we know he wouldn't have killed people in order to give Christine the stage she needed. Had Christine remained with Erik would she have been able to get him to see the error of his ways? To help him feel remorse for the people he killed? To not do it again if they met resistance in the future?

There are some interesting questions.

Now that Ive walked through all of those thoughts, I agree that Logically Christine made the Right Choice, but personally, I think I would have chosen Erik with the STRONG STRONG STRONG demand that he never kill again. Ever. And with the insistence that our relationship be given time. It would be challenging to work in that relationship...we'd both have to give up the Opera Populaire...but I do think its important that in the Laroux book, Erik repeats again and again that he just wanted to have a wife and a family, live 'normal.' What woman with any heart could resist that?

MAHibbard

10-05-2009, 03:05 AM

Thank you so much for your well thought out comments, Esgaroth. I hope you don't mind if I play devil's advocate a little bit. It's something I enjoy doing, because it gives me a chance to look at both sides of the coin and forces me to back up what I write with what I hope are logical reasons.

That disclaimer out of the way...

I don't know that Erik and Christine ever formed a real connection, and I can't say that I ever saw him as being open to her. Unless I misunderstood what you meant (and feel free to correct me if that's the case.) Instead, I see Erik as someone who manipulated Christine for his own motives. As much as I love the character -- especially Leroux's Erik -- what I see is Erik doing whatever is necessary to fulfill his desires. It's not until the end of the story (book, show, and movie) that he starts to consider her wishes and desires over his own. Up until then, Erik is extremely selfish. And if he were open to her, he would never have lied to her or tricked her. He didn't know the first thing about love. His response to seeing her interested in another man was to declare war upon them both.

I don't think it's a bad idea for a woman to make the "safe" choice. Erik was subject to mercurial shifts in mood; sometimes he could be loving and gentle, yet he could become violent at the drop of a hat. Living with that kind of a person is not easy, as I'm sure Erik would have been. A shared passion for music can only go so far in forming a strong and loving relationship, and unless there was some serious emotional growth involved, I don't think Erik and Christine would have lasted together very long.

And we don't know that Raoul would not have supported Christine's desire to sing on stage after their marriage. In fact, there's nothing to suggest this at all, other than our own suppositions and fan fics. ;-) What we do see in Raoul is someone who is willing to risk his life for the safety of the woman he loves.

Esgaroth

10-05-2009, 03:15 AM

lynn82md

10-11-2009, 08:05 PM

Personally, I would choose Erik. While I share Christine's love for the entertainment industry (although I really suck at singing :P), I think I could identify on so many levels with Erik where I can act as a light to his darkness...which I think he did see in Christine.

While I would be a little cautious with his violent tendiences showed up when he had a temper tantrum, it would be temporarily (as least with Gaston's and Kay's phantom). He was dying. It would be a few weeks to a few months where I would have to be his wife. Even though it would terrify me whenever we lost his cool (although I would try to tame that), I would make his last few weeks and months on this planet the happiest he ever lived them since his life was tragic (especially after reading Kay's background on Erik). As Gaston's phantom told Christine, she would be a young widow because he didn't have enough time left.

NOw, if it was the 2004 Phantom (which I prefer to the other versions), I still would've chosen Erik. I would be there to lend an ear and a shoulder to cry on. I would share with him my darkest secrets from my past too. If he got a temper tantrum, I would show him one of mine too...as well as tame his.

Hidden Away

01-02-2010, 03:59 PM

Hasn't my point of view changed over the years?

Well, I must say that I would pick....(people will be shocked) Raoul. If I were under Christine circumstances, she loved him dearly, and yet she pitied Erik beyond belief. I guess that my mental and emotional stability is not tolerable to Erik's needs. I know for a fact that I'm not strong enough to deal with his problems. I know I can be a support life line for people back home, but Erik's problems are just beyond what I can do.

Yea, there I said it. *blink...* friend still think I'm just as crazy as I was when I was 11-13...

angel of the night

01-12-2010, 12:25 AM

Im def ganna say The Phantom!
I would have chosen Erik over Raoul any day! And in my opinion Erik would have never killed anyone if christine woulden't have chosen Raoul..
I guess I just relate more with Erik, Raoul just aint my type really..

so Erik all the way!!! lol :phanc1:

The Countess

01-12-2010, 01:12 AM

And in my opinion Erik would have never killed anyone if christine woulden't have chosen Raoul..

But he did, didn't he? He killed for either his enjoyment or for no practical reason at all. Either way, killing is still killing, no matter the cause or reason. Self-defense is a different matter, but I don't think that that applies to Erik. I personally don't think that Christine had anything to do with Erik being a murderer and all. True, it could relate to the fact that he quote unquote "killed for her" but I think that he killed to suit his own affairs more than her own. It depends on which version you look at (I'm speaking more ALW musical in this case).

Edith

01-22-2010, 02:25 AM

I am going to punjab myself after saying this...
But in my eyes, I would thoughtfully, and faithfully, given my love to Raoul. Now don't get me wrong! I pity Erik, and I cry for him everday and night--even if you don't see or hear me, in my heart I am crying! But in the end...

I understand Erik has had a hard past and may have gone mad, but I could never spend my life with a man who would kill me if he found out my love to him was a lie. For the words of love that come from my mouth to Erik, are full of sympathy and tears, but nothing that I would wed him for. I don't give a [concerned] about the way he looks I will love him I still will have my phangirl moments but..!

If I were Chrisinte, the least I could do was give Erik a last present... and make that kiss really count before I do go off, down the lake and through the catacombs with Raoul. May Erik's soul live forever, and may the angry mob begin chasing me (and the writers too because I know I did not describe my reason too well did I?).

Colonel Landa

01-22-2010, 06:25 AM

Edith, you were completely coherent and I agree with you word for word!

I feel sorry for Erik (especially during his final scene with Daroga in Leroux *tear*), but it's really a no brainer that he's not at all suitable to live with. He's comfortable with murder, manipulation and is prone irritable and violent moods. Raoul, though sometimes a little childish (Leroux), is a perfect gentleman, kind and completely caring.

Bittersweet

02-17-2010, 11:46 PM

I would choose Raoul. I know that people get on him for being a fop, but honestly...if put in her shoes who would I rather choose? An endearing viscount or a psycopathic murderer that kidnapped me through a mirror and impersonated an angel my father sent? I love Erik, yes, but it's a sort of pity love...When I read the novel, that was when I really chose Raoul. While Erik was willing to kill for Christine, Raoul was willing to die for her. I couldn't live with Erik's murderous tendencies (even if he quit, he still has killed many people...) love of manipulation, extremely violent mood swings and the like. I can undertstand how he justified his actions, but still...just no. Even with flaws, realistically, it'd be Raoul.

xXphantomaddictedXx

08-12-2011, 06:44 PM

All fantasies aside, I'd choose Raoul -- simply because he's not a psychopath the way Erik is. Erik does have an enchanting voice and amazing musical talents, but those are his only redeeming qualities. When we remove those, we're left with his true self -- the murderous stalker who kidnapped a singer because he claimed to "love" her. That being said, Erik does not know the concept of love or what it means to be loved because no one has ever shown him feelings like that.

pckgm28

01-22-2012, 06:05 AM

To be honest, this is a very hard choice for a lot of reasons. Not only does she have to choose between two men, but she must also choose between two lifestyles. With Raoul, she gets a man who clearly loves her, and is rich, and famous, and can take her to all the balls and do everything a normal woman would do. However, with Erik/Phantom it's a little different. Yes, he loves her, but this is a man who lives his life in a dark, probably damp and cold, lair under the opera house. Let's face it, he practically lives in a cave with lavish furnishings. If she lived down there, would she eventually reach the point that she wouldn't be able to return to the world above or risk exposing his whereabouts? Or would she be able to continue on as she always had, only now she would travel back and forth from the lake under the opera, to the stage above? Not to mention the fact that if she did choose Erik, and they had children, there is a chance that their children would suffer the same fate as Erik. For me, I don't know which one I would choose really. It's a tough choice. I think in the end, it would come down to who I think I could be most happy with in the long run. Would I be able to overlook the cold, dark, cave like home under the opera house, as well as deal with the possibility of my children feeling the hatred that Erik feels, just to have a husband who understands me a little better? Or would my human nature kick in and choose base comforts and security of Raoul, even though he wouldn't understand me quite as well musically as the Phantom does.