Lon Chaney Film (1925)

[IamErik771]

I noticed that the "Black & White Films" forum was empty, so I decided to be the first to post. I first saw this film last Halloween on TCM (recorded it too) and I absolutely LOVED it! I think it was mostly because of how close it was to the original novel. :D So, what do you think?

[Ubaldo Piangi]

Indeed. Many have said it's the closest film adaptation to Leroux's original story. Even though I've never seen it for myself, I've read reviews that Lon Chaney, Sr. did a superb job of portraying the Phantom as Leroux had written. It's no wonder the actor was known as the "Man of a Thousand Faces", since he played all kinds of monsters and such. He also did his own makeup, and was quite good at it.

Of course, as most silent films go, the drama looks hokey and all to those of us who are used to more contemporary movies, but who wouldn't expect that in the story of the Phantom? Gaston Leroux meant for it to be dramatic! :D

[IamErik771]

Yes, Chaney was a spectacular actor. Not only did he have a gift for making his own makeup effects, but he also could bring emotion to his roles and make viewers feel sympathetic towards his characters, no matter how hideous they may appear.

I did not like the ending of this film, though. It completely deviates from the way Leroux originally meant for it to be, and it almost destroys any sympathy viewers have for Lon Chaney's Erik.
**SPOILER ALERT!** Below is a description of the scene, and why I don't like it. If you haven't seen the film and wish to be surprised, then don't read it. :D



After Christine turns the scorpion (and thus agrees to marrying Erik), an angry mob comes down to Erik's lair. Erik saves Raoul and Ledoux, and then runs off with Christine. They get into a carriage to escape the mob. Then (and this is the reason why I dislike this scene), the carriage overturns, and Erik leaves Christine behind, not even checking to see if she is OK! He instead runs off to save his own skin. The mob eventually catches up with him, beats him to death, and throws his body in a river. The end.

This whole scene takes about as long to watch as it does for the average person to read the above paragraph.

[Ubaldo Piangi]

Aaaahh! You killed it for me! *melodramatic swoon* Okay, okay. ^^;;; Seriously, though, it does take away any sympathy you'd feel for Chaney's Erik. Here he cared so much about Christine, and yet he leaves her on the side of the road and doesn't even look back. I guess he deserved that punishment from the crowd. :(

[IamErik771]

Hey, I said not to read it if you didn't want to know! :D According to some accounts, the original planned ending in the script was much closer to what Gaston Leroux had written, with Erik letting Christine go willingly, and then going to Ledoux's house (Ledoux is their version of the Persian) and telling him all about it. Apparently, Lon Chaney himself preferred this ending, but Carl Laemmle (the director) felt that the audience would rather have a faster-paced, more action-packed climax where Erik finally showed his "true colors" as a monster both inside and out, and would be punished appropriately. Obviously, he didn't get the whole point of the original story. It seems that this and other disagreements between Chaney and Laemmle caused heated arguments between them, and sometimes Chaney would refuse to follow Laemmle's directions because of these disagreements.

They also supposedly wanted to remake this film a few years later as a "talkie," but Chaney passed away before this could be done. And Gaston Leroux never got to see the film either. :(

[The Khanum]

I really didn't like this version...and I hated Christine! ::Twitches:: In fact, the only character I felt anything but hatred towards was Raoul...and that in and of itself is quite sad...

Erik was a monster, Christine was a shallow b!tch, and the Persian wasn't even Persian! He was a Secret Police dude! ::Le sigh:: And the ending was truly horrible...as IamErik said, it's like the director completely missed the point that Erik WASN'T a bad person on the inside.

But my main complaint about the movie was Christine...it's like the only thing that made her hate Erik was his face! ::Imitates Christine:: "Save me, Raoul, save me from that horrifying creature!" ::Fake-faints::

I truly loathe Christine's character. The movie had it's amusing moments, though. I had a good laugh.

~The_Phantom_is_Sexy

[IamErik771]

Also, why on earth was there no mention of the "angel of music" subplot? Christine addresses Erik as "Master" when she hears him speaking through the walls, but there's no indication that he helped her in any way. That lessens the audience's sympathy for him even more! "Sure, he says he loves her, but what did he ever do for her?" Oh, and there is a black horse in the scene where Erik takes Christine to his lair, which is why the new ALW film has a black horse instead of a gray one like in the novel. :D And this film also had a couple of nice touches. For example, there's one scene where the ballet girls see the Phantom's shadow lurking about. Then, they see Ledoux come by, and suspect that he may be the Phantom! Also, in this version, Joseph Buquet (who isn't in the credits!) has a brother who wants to avenge his death, and goes with the angry mob to kill Erik.

For the most part, though, I enjoyed this film. I'm glad I recorded it so I can watch it over and over again. ;)

[Christine Daaé]

I actually did not like this film at all. The pace was SO SLOW . . . my grandmother saw it back in the 1930s, and she didn't like it, either. Not that Lon Chaney wasn't good -- I liked him. I just don't see what the rest of the fuss is all about.

~ Zelda de le Fantome

[The Khanum]

::Ponders along with Zelda::

Frankly, I have no idea. Erik was a monster...and that is something he should never be. An opium/morphine-addicted strangely obsessive murderer, yes... Monster, no.

~Erik is my Hero (not a monster)

[IamErik771]

I found out some very interesting details about how Lon Chaney ensured that certain scenes were done correctly. He understood Erik's character extremely well, probably better than any other actor who played the role, and he was quite the perfectionist. Here is a little info on how he got the appropriate reactions from Mary Philbin (Christine) when they filmed the "unmasking" scene. Quoted from EmilyCrawfordGreene, of Phantomfans.net:

For example, when Lon did the unmasking scene, where Mary is lying on the floor with her hand over her face and she's screaming in terror. There is a hidden story behind that. Anytime Mary's face showed up (while she was lying on the floor and you only saw her face), Lon, to get Mary in the mood he knew would work, gave a tirade of verbal abuse and criticized her, yelled at her, told her obsene things. Mary of course, terrified, said, 'I will tell Mr. Laemmle" and Lon advanced towards her like a hot bat out of hell and she held up her hand and screamed as he made a move to swat her. Then he turned to the cameraman and said, "Did you get that?" and then when given the affirmative, Lon told Mary what he had been doing and that he was simply helping her to act. (He never allowed her though to get too comfortable, in other scenes he would do the same thing) But at the end of the filming, Lon revealed completely to Mary that none of what he said to her was true and he apologized and was very sweet and gentle to her. Mary respected him greatly after that and even looked on him in awe. Later, Mary confessed, she adored Lon Chaney.

Talk about getting into your roles! :D

[Christine Daaé]

Wow. That's pretty amazing. Good thing this is a silent film! I would never be able to take that kind of thing.

~ Zelda de le Fantome

[The Khanum]

I was thinking as I read that "How could he shout things at her? Wouldn't that ruin it?" And then I remembered it was a silent fiilm.

::Smacks self on forehead::

~Erik is my Hero

[Countess Cain]

While I wasn't too fond of some parts, I actually liked it, especially when compared to the 1989 PotO. I thought Lon Chaney did a great job. In fact, the only part I didn't like was the very ending, which was already mentioned. And I would have preferred to see the Persian instead of a secret police dude. :/

Also, it had the torture chamber, and our dear Phantom was actually 'Erik' in it! Whoo! XO

[IamErik771]

I would have loved to have been in a theater showing this film in the 1920s, with the live pianist and everything. And, of course, to see people's early reaction to Lon Chaney's "death's head" makeup. This was cutting-edge stuff back in the day.

BTW, according to some rumors, the "Red Death" mask in the masked ball scene was also supposedly Chaney's face, grotesquely made up. I think his Red Death mask was even worse than the Phantom's real face, but that's just me. :D

I added a very important point to the "spoiler" section in my second post. Read it if you dare! :mask:

[Reza Khan]

Hehe, my mom bought this movie on DVD. It was on a disc with two other 'classic horror films.' I watched most of it this morning, but I think the disc is faulty because it keeps 'skipping' (for lack of a better word).

The two things I liked so far were the fact that his name (Erik) is mentioned and the fact that his lair is actually a house, not just an area on the rocks (as is the 2004 movie).

Elizabeth

[The_Persian]

I really want to see it! I am going to see it soon, I hope, and i cant wait!
I have heard lots of different things about it, but for the most part i have heard that it is the closest adaptation from PotO by Leroux... it this true?

[IamErik771]

I think so. Except for the ending (mentioned on one of my first posts here) and the fact that there is no "Angel of Music" subplot, I think it's the closest anyone's gotten. Although they changed the Persian into some secret police person who isn't an old friend of Erik, and Joseph Buquet now has a brother named Simon.

[The_Persian]

They changed the Persian?! Humph! why would anyone want to change, or even get rid of the Persian! He is perfection! 'Humbug'

Anna = in love with the Persian

[IamErik771]

I know what you mean, Anna. The daroga is probably tied with Erik as my favorite character in the novel. I may have said this before, but there's a highly amusing scene in this film where the ballet girls see the Phantom's shadow lurking about. After it vanishes, they see Ledoux (the secret police guy based on the Persian) walk in, and suspect that he might be the Phantom! :D

[Countess Cain]

It's better than melting him into Madame Giry, you know.

I love the part when the ballet girls think that he's Erik too. Ledoux can look rather... Menacing, sometimes, I guess I could say.

[Vivian]

In my humble opinion, this film has been the best adaptation of the novel yet. The terrible ending aside, the whole movie was the closest any other film has gotten to the actual novel, and Lon Chaney has been, by far, the best Phantom. His performance was superv, and his facial deformation was almost an exact replica of the idea conveyed in the novel. Chaney went as far as to do something (not exactly what yet) to his nose to make it look quite horrendous almost non-existent.

The only downfalls of this movie are the terribly misconceived ending, and the interpretation of Christine, both points already quite thoroughly discussed ^_^

-V-

[Countess Cain]

I think Chaney put some kind of wire mechanism in his now to make it stick up like it did. I saw that on a documentary thing that other day. They said it had a tendancy to make him bleed like mad sometimes, though. I can easily see why.

Also, on the documentary, it showed part of the 'lost' ending, where Erik died of a broken heart. Though it was only a glimpse, I could tell that that would have made the movie much better.

[The Khanum]

Ah, yes...I saw that, too. How I wish they had used that ending... The fact that Erik abandoned Christine to save his own skin is perhaps the worst interpretation of Phantom of the Opera I've ever seen. It contradicts everything the story stood for.

Didn't Chaney want to use the Broken Heart ending as well? If I remember correctly, the director and Chaney had a bit of a spat (< understatement of the year) over the ending, but the director won out. From what I hear, they didn't get along too well...

[Countess Cain]

Yep, he did want to use it. But like you said, the director was against it. (Well, one of the directors, anyway.)

He supposedly didn't get along with most of the cast... I think he didn't get along with the guy who played Raoul either.

[IamErik771]

Aye, sometimes these disagreements became so severe that Lon Chaney would actually refuse to do what the director said. So, they had to hold off shooting for a while until they both calmed down.

I would have loved to see that ending too! I wish someone had saved the whole thing... I think there's a book on Lon Chaney that features screenshots from that lost scene.

[Countess Cain]

Is it this one, James?

Phantom of the Opera (Hollywood Archives Series) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1882127331/qid%3D1090002624/sr%3D1-1/102-3560198-9749727)

I'm really considering buying that one... It looks interesting. I know I'd love to read it.

[Vivian]

The fact that Erik abandoned Christine to save his own skin is perhaps the worst interpretation of Phantom of the Opera I've ever seen. It contradicts everything the story stood for.


I could not have said it better myself. I was enraged the first time I saw the film at how they deformed the ending to make seem as if the Phantom was indeed a horrible monster; that is, at least, how it came across to me. Considering the time it was filmed, however, it is reasonable to think the director chose this ending, because back in the 20s' (in film, at least) the "good guy" was exactly that, a good guy, and the "bad guy" was the horrible monster, and "good" must always prevail. The Phantom of the Opera (film) was ment to be a horror film, not a tragedy, and so giving "tragic hero" qualities to the Phantom seemd unfathomable (no pun intended). Lon Chaney was most likely the only one in the whole production that fully understood Erik, and so it seems obvious he would rather use the alternate ending. But alas! The director won!

I would still like to see the alternate ending, however o.O.... Do anyone of you know where I would find at least bits and pieces of it?

-V-

[IamErik771]

Originally posted by Sadako Kurosawa
Is it this one, James?

Phantom of the Opera (Hollywood Archives Series) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1882127331/qid%3D1090002624/sr%3D1-1/102-3560198-9749727)

I'm really considering buying that one... It looks interesting. I know I'd love to read it.

I think that's the one. Not completely sure, though; I need to ask someone on PFN. :D

Vivian, I think you're absolutely right. Chaney understood Erik's character very well; perhaps more so than any other actor who has ever played the role. Too bad Rupert Julian and Carl Laemmle (the directors) didn't give him more freedom in his portrayal.

[IamErik771]

According to some new sources I have discovered (one of which was written by Lon Chaney's own grandson), Gaston Leroux did get to see this film before he passed away. He is said to have been greatly impressed by Lon Chaney's makeup, and rumor has it that he approved the casting of Mary Philbin as Christine, even though she was a brunette. Interesting to know, don't you think? :D

[Phantom's Sonnet]

I truly love Lon Chaney's Phantom of the Opera. It was simply compelling and bewitching. Though it was silent I abosolutely adored it, I am big classic movie fan especially with horror classics,maybe thats why. Anyway Lon was amazing as the Phantom and I cried when I watched the ending. My friend Serene bought it on dvd and I can watch it whenever I want now. Truly, a wonderful piece of work.

[F-warp]

Just to let everyone know, Lon Chaney's POTO is at number 52 on Bravo's top 100 scariest movie moments. See the commentary in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykPlPgYKhsQ

[IamErik771]

Wow, that is pretty cool! And I love how a Dario Argento film ranked just below it. XD Mind you, I loved most of Argento's other horror films -- I haven't seen Demons, but Opera (no relation to his POTO) was simply amazing. Wonder if that one got a mention on the list?

In unrelated news... F-warp, where did you get the image for your sig? XD Being a Marvel geek, I have to say it gets me laughing every time I see it. ^_^

[F-warp]

Wow, that is pretty cool! And I love how a Dario Argento film ranked just below it. XD Mind you, I loved most of Argento's other horror films -- I haven't seen Demons, but Opera (no relation to his POTO) was simply amazing. Wonder if that one got a mention on the list?

In unrelated news... F-warp, where did you get the image for your sig? XD Being a Marvel geek, I have to say it gets me laughing every time I see it. ^_^

Nah, Opera didn't get a mention. You can check the whole list by going to the dude's user profile. Fun way to fill an afternoon. Nosferatu is on there too, somewhere a bit higher than POTO

I can't remember for the life of me. I freakin' looove Deadpool (even though I'm a bit more of a DC man myself) so I image google him every once in a while. This was just one of those images that was too cool to ignore so I saved it on my computer.

[Victoria]

Oh my God it sooo deserves to be on there :)

[Sweet Siren]

I've only seen fragments of this on Youtube, but from what I've seen, the 1925 film is amazing! The emotions portrayed by the actors are palpable despite sound barriers. If only modern actors could be as effective...

[The Countess]

At last I've found this thread! As you can see by my avvie, I'm a huge phan of this version. It's deep, it's moving, it's close to the book. Lon Cahney, in my humble opinion, is the greatest actor of all time. Did anyone of you know that he was the brain behind the unmasking scene?

I love it in practically everyway, except for the ending. I don't want to give any spoilers, but it irked me a bit.

Oh and Sweet Siren, you're offically my new best friend for having a 1925 avatar. I do not feel alone :)

[IamErik771]

Great news for all fans of the 1925 film! Lon Chaney's version of POTO was ranked #17 (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/guides/the_plays_the_thing/1016240-phantom_of_the_opera/) on Rotten Tomatoes' (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/guides/the_plays_the_thing/) list of the top 25 movies about theatre. None of the other Phantom films were mentioned. But w00t for Lon! :D

[Madame le Courayer]

It's amazing how this film endures. It was made in a time so far removed from our own but yet the story and the cinemtography still thrills and delights. I think we are a select and lucky few who recognize it for the piece of genius and art that it is! No modern version can touch it.

[The Countess]

I think I shall die! My beautiful 1929 version DVD is ruined! Ruined I tell you! And beyond repair. I don't know how it got so scratched; I took such good care of it. Woe is me! *sobs*

Can anyone tell me where I can find another copy? One with maybe some bonus featues to ease my pain? :( :( :(

[Madame le Courayer]

Viktoria, check Amazon for the best prices. I know Barnes and Noble carries it too. It's on my wishlist for alas I have only the VHS version and the soundtrack is the horrendous Rick Wakeman one. UGH!!! The only nice thing about mine is the commentary at the beginning by Christopher Lee and that's probably the only reason I keep it.
Good luck with your search Viktoria! :)

[darcimkire]

I think I shall die! My beautiful 1929 version DVD is ruined! Ruined I tell you! And beyond repair. I don't know how it got so scratched; I took such good care of it. Woe is me! *sobs*

Can anyone tell me where I can find another copy? One with maybe some bonus featues to ease my pain? :( :( :(

I know where you can download the 1925 version.
It's free to download...

Here's the link:http://www.archive.org/details/ThePhantomoftheOpera

(118 MB)64Kb MPEG4
(273 MB)256Kb MPEG4
(506 MB)MPEG1
(2 GB)MPEG2

[xXphantomaddictedXx]

Last night, I went to Amazon.com and ordered the Lon Chaney POTO. It will be shipped on Wednesday, so that means I should receive it anywhere from the next day to next Monday. The version I have ordered is something called the "Ultimate Edition," which supposedly has a ton of special features and things like that. I am really looking forward to seeing a "better" movie version of POTO. I will post again when I have watched it all the way through at least once.

[The Countess]

Mwhahaha! Slowly everyone will join in the Lon frenzy! We will dominate the world!!!!

Forgive me, I'm very happy that I have another copy of my precious...

[xXphantomaddictedXx]

Mwhahaha! Slowly everyone will join in the Lon frenzy! We will dominate the world!!!!

Forgive me, I'm very happy that I have another copy of my precious...

Your precious?! Gollum much? :p Anyway, I just thought I'd give an update on the status of my order. It came on the second Monday in November, and I have seen the 1929 rereleased version, but not the 1925 original. I enjoyed the movie immensely, except for the ending, which was very confusing.

[The Countess]

The ending truley is half-assed, but wasn't originally that terriable. Originally, Erik died of love as he did in the book but audiences didn't respond to the ending very well. Erik was considered to be the "bad guy" so obviously the public wanted him to come to justice and not die in a reddeming way, hence the mob/drowning scene. It's actually a known fact that Lon wasn't very pleased with this. Of course, he and the director had MANY confrontations.

[angelgirl]

Amazingly, I really liked this movie the first time I saw it!
I thought I wasn't going to have the patience to sit through a silent film. I got it as part of a 4-movie set, one of the others being the John Barrymore version of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Of course, POTO is the only one I've ever watched out of them. (Duh, it's the whole reason I got the set!)

I wasn't a big fan of the ending. I prefer the original ending I've heard about, where the Phantom dies of a broken heart instead of getting beaten to death by a mob and then thrown in the river.
(It always ends badly for poor Erik in almost every version, doesn't it? So sad.)
A.G.

[Hidden Away]

Lasting time I saw this version was about three to four years back when I went to Canada to visit my auntie. She loves Phantom more than I could ever say...I'm am not kidding! So she let me see it and I was hooked! But sadly at the time it was one of those movies that I forgot about after a while, but then remembered when I read the book for the first time. Now I'm literally craving to watch it!!! I'm planning on finding it with my friends around town and when we find it we will watch it and make sure Kate doesn't pass out again, because she definitely did when saw the 2004 version. That's what the Gerry phanatic gets. Oh I still love you Kate Darling :D

[The Countess]

Worst comes to worst, you could always watch it on youtube or something. I know that it posts quite a few times on the internet (but isn't everything these days?). Ha, are you sure Gerik phans would want to watch it? You know how that kind gets ;)

I'm teasing of course....in a way...

[lynn82md]

I got this movie in 2007. I like it for a silent movie. Of course, I'm always interested in watching movies that are old just to see how different acting was back then (of course...in silent versions, it was mostly visual) since I do aspire to work in the entertainment industry.

I did get sleepy from listening to the music that's played on it, especially in the begining.

[Soprano Rose]

This is definitely my phavorite philm version. As others have already said, the ending irks me to no end! However, that aside, it's the version closest to the book and Lon Chaney is absolutely AMAZING in it.

[MAHibbard]

Lon Chaney wanted the ending to be much closer to Leroux, and it was even filmed and can be seen in stills from lost footage that got cut/replace by the (now cliched) mob chasing the monster finale.

There were also other ties to Leroux that ended up on the cutting room floor, including the scene at the cemetery in Perros.

I'm not sure how, if at all, to post images here. If I knew, I'd post them. :spin2:

[Beanie]

Actuality watching this right now. I have never seen it before, and it was on netflix (To which my brother lets me use his account) so I thought why not. I like it so far, normally I don't do silent films but it's good. Will edit post saying how I like the rest of it.

Edit: Wow I really liked this movie! So much like Leroux's version. But like most of you I did not like the ending as well. I still felt bad of him at the end, never saw him as a monster, but they should have ended it Leroux's way. One more version of the phantom I have seen! For one's who have not seen it you can watch it free here
http://www.movies-links.tv/movies/the_phantom_of_the_opera_1925/
Just pick what link you want to watch it form.

[ErikPhan]

Wow, thank you for the link ,Beanie !

( btw. This is my first post here, hello my Fellow Phans! )

[xXphantomaddictedXx]

Wow, I really need to watch this again, because I seem to pick up new ideas and thoughts each time I see it. Like many of you, my favorite part is the unmasking scene because it's such a powerful moment. We, along with Christine, see Erik for who and what he truly is.

Furthermore, I agree wholeheartedly when I say the finale that ended up in the final cut is terrible. Also, like many of you, I think the director should have listened to Lon quite a bit more, because then the ending to the film would have much more of a Lerouxesque feel to it.

Aside from the ending, though, I'm pleased with my Ultimate Edition -- save for the fact that I've only watched the 1929 restored version so far! James keeps telling me I should watch the 1925 original version -- just to compare the two -- so maybe I'll suck it up and do so one day.

[ErikPhan]

The 1925 version is my favorite adaptation of the novel.
Lon Chaney was superb !
It's true, I didn't like the ending either, but I know that the original ending was much better. I'm convinced that Lon Chaney was the last person who wanted to change it.
The Persian is one of my favorite characters in the novel - I absolutely adore him. However, Ledoux in the movie was so close that I don't mind that change - in fact he does the same things. For me, he IS the Persian. And the hat is something that our Daroga would appreciate. Besides, as far as I know he was in fact supposed to be the Persian, and the name Ledoux was a last moment change. And I like the scene you've mentioned.
I love this version . After all, it has King Leonidas ( don't look at me that way, I mean King Leonidas, not the actor who played King Leonidas ) and King Arthur in it !

[xXphantomaddictedXx]

So I finally saw the 1925 version, and it's quite different from the 1929 one. The music isn't as cutesy as it was in the '29 version, for one thing. And I really loved how they did that because the majority of POTO is not a cutesy story in any way, shape, or form. It's supposed to be a horror/tragedy, and by sweetening it up like they did in the '29 film, they took away most of its brilliance. Other than that, the only complaint I have is the ending. It was still icky, but I won't go into detail because we're always complaining about the ending in this thread.

[Mando&PhantomPhangirl]

Ok, I absolutely adore Lon Chaney. I am, by the way, a Gerik phan, but I think thats because I saw the 2004 version first. Anyway . . . Chaney (despite the much despised ending) seemed to put the not-as-evil-as-the-director-wanted feel into Erik, and made me sympathize with the guy until the stupid carriage thing. *glare*
I'm rambling. Sorry. But I love Chaney's Erik as much as every other Erik I've seen, so not ALL Gerik phans are anti-Leroux.

[xXphantomaddictedXx]

Good for you!

Anyway, I'm in the process of showing my IHSS worker the '25 film, and she really likes it so far! However, I haven't told her that I'm trying to educate her on the various POTO films yet. I think I'll wait till the film is over and then tell her!

[xXphantomaddictedXx]

*thread revival*

I loaned my parents' neighbor -- who's otherwise known as a very good friend of mine -- the 1925 film in hopes that he'd become a phan. Unfortunately, he hasn't gotten to sit down and watch it yet, but when he does, I'll post again and let you all know what he thought of it. :spin2: