Who Won: Phantom or Raoul?

[xplorer]

First, sorry if this question has been answered of considered as stupid, but i've got one question: who "won" Christines love?

I'm thinking about the ending when we see the ring. In our society a ring is most often used within a proposal. So therefore the phantom still loved Christine and death was "no problem". And Raoul bought the musical box, which the phantom cared about. So, I think he kind of gave up.


So, any comments?

[sunshine]

Well first off, I dont think either Raoul or Erik won. The ring I think doesnt really hold that kind of meaning, yes it is true that in the end of the movie Christine married Raoul but in the book by Leroux it doesnt really say what happend. I think the ring symbolizes the ordeal that happend between Christine, Raoul, and Erik. Since in the book Erik gave Christine the ring and she lost it and then Erik found it and gave it back to Christine for her and Raoul to keep. And I dont think Raoul gave up because he bought Erik's music box I think he bought it for Christine and for sentimental value. So in the end I dont believe either of them won because Christine loved both Erik and Raoul. :D

[AAW0487]

I agree with sunshine. I don't think the Phantom or Raoul won. I think Christine had spoken of the musical box before her death and when all the possesions of the Opera House were being sold, Raoul thought the musical box might be there and wanted to give it to Christine by laying it on her grave. You notice in the movie when Raoul see's the Rose and the Ring he seems stunned by them even being there. He the proceeds to look around the graveyard just to see if the Phantom may be there. I think both Raoul and the Phantom just wanted to show Christine that they loved her by giving her what was important to her at one point in her life, and she loved them both even if she did marry Raoul.

[FallenRose123]

Well in a way I think that they both won her love, though Raoul won it more. The phantom still had control over her mind but Raoul got her hand in marriage. I don't think that it is a win loose situation, it might be but I don't think that it is.

[Reza Khan]

Originally posted by xplorer
And Raoul bought the musical box, which the phantom cared about. So, I think he kind of gave up.
That's what I'm inclined to say. He knows that Christine loves him, because she chose him phor marriage, but I can't imagine her being completely devoted the whole time. Raoul probably saw and understood that she still loved Erik in a diphpherent way, so he wanted to make her happy in the end.

So who won? I think Erik did, because in the end, Raoul gave up and acknowledged the phact that Christine probably loved him more.

[Michaela]

Erik won! Well, I wish he had but no one really did.

In the end, Christine had feelings for both Erik and Raoul, so neither really won over her heart.

[Parisian Phantom]

I think that, throughtout both the movie and the book, Christine actually loved both Erik and also Raoul, and she was just torn between the two, not meaning to hurt either of them. At the end, nobody truly wins her heart, because she remains stuck between the two. Each of them has managed to charm her, and just make her fall in love. Its tough for her to give up on either one seeing what kind of connection she has had to both of them, so I do think she keeps strong feelings for both of them. :)

[Love the Lie]

I'm in agreeance that no one really won over her heart and her love. It was a constant battle for the two and even though she gave back the ring, it may have been more for her own benefit than Erik's. As if telling herself that she had made her choice and would stick by it. Her choice was Raoul but she still loved Erik and Erik still loved her.

^_^

[Tears and Rain]

I think neither Raoul or The Phantom won because I think that hse love them both but in different ways The Phantom like a father or protector and Raoul like a friend.

[Erik]

I think Raoul technically won - He got to go away with Christine, marry her, have children with her. . .

But the Phantom always had Christine's heart, or so I liek to think anyway. How could she forget him?

So really, Raoul won Christine, but neither got all of her love. If she had never seen Erik's face, then maybe Erik. . .but there's too many "if's" in that sentance.

[Raoulsgal0689]

*banging head on the desk* UHG!! People are going to hate me for this...Raoul won in the end, to me. She made her choice to go with him, showing that he was the one who truly held her heart. I don't believe she ever forgot about Erik, though, but I don't feel she felt the need to go back to him.

[Jodi Weaver]

I honestly beleive that Erik won Christine's heart. True, she loved them both. Raul represents the good, pure, sweet love, while Erik represents dark, heated, all-consuming, passionate love. In the end, she could live without neither. When she chose to go with Raul, she was also acknowledging that she would forever be torn between two great loves.

[AngelofMusic1087]

Though Christine technically went with Raoul, I still think the Phantom won. I mean, the ring with the rose in the end, I feel really indicates that Christine`s heart always stayed with the Phantom.....even in death. And You know, The Phantom never ever stopped loving her, and I am sure she never stopped loving the Phantom, even though, they never say it.

[MissDay7000]

Technically , Raoul won-Christine married him, chose him over Erik, he got the girl and lived happily ever after- BUT, if Christine became remorseful of her decision, if she found out that she really did love Erik after all, then i guess Erik won, because he still found a way to come between the De Chagny's even after his death. But we have no way of knowing that Christine ended up feeling that way, we just want her to, so it's all how you want to see things.

MissDay

[getzell]

if you've seen the movie roul totaly won her but the phantom should have

[Chance_or_Destiny]

I agree with Getzell, Raoul won hands down. However the Phantom should have one - what kind of crazy woman could resist that voice?

[AngelicRose]

I have seen this question so many times and I have many different views on this.

Christine loved both men, but different ways. I love Joel's quote: "Christine's relationship with Raoul is really her romantic awakening as a teenager. But her pull towards the Phantom is a very sexual, very deep, soulful union."

From one idea...Christine may have married Raoul but in the end Erik won because he had her in death. A happily ever after-life situation.

Another idea...is that Christine could have went back to Erik. But that's normally where phanphic comes in.

Another one...Christine loved Raoul but thought of Erik. Whether or not one believes she loved Erik.

The HP...Erik and Christine do end up together.

Or...Raoul and Christine end up together and live a happy life.

It's a matter of opinion, and I think ALW and JS did that on purpose. There's tons of possibilities to this story so everyone can be happy. Whether you're E/C or R/C...you can decide how it ends.

That's my opinion on the subject. :phanc1:

[More than Music]

I believe that Raoul won, and there's no doubt in my mind that he should have. I don't mean to bash those of you who wish she had stayed with Erik, but it just isn't very realisitic for me. Erik loved her, and sometimes I could tell that Christine wished she loved Erik, but she didn't really. She loved him in a different way than Raoul. I'm saying this based on several versions.

Raoul won. Definately. Though Christine still loved Erik as a friend and teacher, she didn't give him her heart in that way, as I see it.

xplorer, I must disagree with you. I believe that Raoul bought the music box at the auction because Christine often spoke of how lovely it was. I believe that this was his way of saying that he didn't mind Erik being a part of her.

Erik put the rose on her grave as a sign that he still loved her, but obviously, he had backed off.

[Carlotta_Giudicell]

I agree with MissDay and AngelicRose. Those are very good points.

I'm one of those crazy E/C shippers. But of course, they never actually show her going with the Phantom, so I need to resort to the wonders of Phan fics.

:phanc2:

~Carlotta:cg1:

[MystMoonstruck]

I believe that Raoul won although he acknowledged the influence of Erik on Christine. Erik might have awakened the sensual side of Christine, but, by the end, she is viewing him as a murderer (which he is) and tells him that her feelings have turned to hate.

Raoul is not only her childhood sweetheart but also her Prince Charming when he returns. Christine has to relinquish the Angel of Music, who obviously has been controlling her life for so many years--a guardian who obviously grew to wanting to possess her. Does Erik truly love Christine, or has he simply become fixated on a girl who places all her trust in him?

Christine has loved Raoul from childhood to adulthood. She marries him and bears children. She might have thought of Erik occasionally, but do you think she would have settled for living in the darkness--in a sewer?

[masquerading rose]

Raoul. Definatly. Christine always has, and always will love Raoul (even if you guys don't). Raoul won Christine's heart with the first time their eyes met. While Raoul was gone, Christine seemed to have forgotten him, but really didn't. He just wasn't her main concern at the time. Raoul came back and Christine fell in love with him again.



Raoul And Christine For EVA!!

[angel of opera]

technically, Erik won because even though erik forced christine into staying with him; she was willing to stay and go through the obstacles. but erik changed his mind at the last minute and wanted her to have a good, safe life. he wanted her to be high in nobility and have people take care of her. so sadly, he surrendered her to rauol

[Angelus]

In the movie and musical versions, Raoul technically won. He went away with Christine and lived a happy (if not completely untroubled) life with her. End of story. That's all we see, anyway.

I don't think anyone won. All that was achieved was that Christine's heart was ripped apart with Erik wrenching at one side frenziedly and Raoul tugging at the other side in that sweetly boyish way of his. I believe she loved them both, in different ways, but although Erik brought out her more sensual, confident side, Raoul remained the sweet boy that she had loved since childhood, and the one she was sure would never, ever hurt or frighten her.

[Taka]

Let me start by saying a huge Erik fan. He's my favorite character and I also have a small little crush on him.


That being said, I think that we ought to listen to ALW's lyrics: "God give me courage to show you what you might have known". Put emphasis on the "God give me courage". It's clear that Christine was reluctant in choosing the Phantom at the end and only did so to set Raoul free.

[Shattered Rose]

I honestly think that no one won... even if in the book and the movie she left with Raoul, I think Christine always had a special place in her heart for her Angel of Music, she always remembered him. I also think Raoul kind of gave up when he bought the monkey... he realized that Erik was always there between them...

[Taka]

Yes, but remember the lyrics "What tears I might have shed. . .are now tears of hate!" (or something like that. Too lazy to recall the correct words.) It's clear by the end of the story that Christine was annoyed by the phantom and wanted to strangle him. She only stayed with him to let Raoul free.

[Foreverinspired2004]

The Phantom. He had her heart and I think Christine even knew that he would always have her heart and she'd always have his. They both loved eachother more than the stories ever said.

[Foreverinspired2004]

Also Raoul said/sang in the lair for the finale 'Either way you choose he has to be.' In other words no matter who she chooses for what reason, she chose The Phantom first because he'd kill Raoul if she didnt but she chose hm because it was meant to be. It would be unbearable to be in Raoul's position knowing he was never meant to be and there wa someone out there who loved her more than anything.

[AshyLeStrange]

Personally, I think she loved the Phantom but dared not be with him, because he was "evil" and "mad". But maybe I'm just comforting myself. Lol.

[Hidden Away]

I'm a girl with denial in herself. I hate to admit that Erik did love Christine (that's why I completely emphasize the obsession part...) I hated the fact that Erik told Christine that he loved her. *cringe and gag!!* I'm not really considered a 'phan' of Christine and Erik as a couple. I'm in the group where they get jealous in the scene of when Erik and Christine are sensual and loving towards each other. It breaks my heart...alright, back to the subject!!! *coughs and clears throat and looks around hoping no one saw my sad/depressed moment*
Erik or Raoul...who won? I believe that (without my book's events) that none of them won. Sure Raoul won Christine's choice, but perhaps Christine is a girl of sensitivity? She might have felt bad for Raoul after she's promised, vowed, and was even engaged to him. (in 2004 movie pretenses) when she looked back at Erik as she was sing I could swear that she's regretting everything. So Erik got a point...*marks on a chalkboard under Erik's name a talley* he won part of Christine's love in any shape or form. In the book, (Gaston's--I'm still in the process of reading it, because my parents tried to restrain me from the topic of Phantom of the Opera. But that didn't stop me...) Christine did love him in the first place, but then Raoul stepped into the picture and tada!!! Christine ran to Raoul when Erik accidentally exploded! If you think about it, if Christine learned how to understand Erik's life and how it is compared to hers, and if she learn to be a better judge she might have stayed with Erik.
But if my book happened (oh yeah, sike!) the reason for the rose and the ring is a Thank you to Christine for she has taught Erik to live life the way God give it to him and to love in ways that are completely unforgettable.
Alright Christine's point....she did love him, you can see it...in any depresserate for she did love Erik. But she was too scared to be with him for she saw someone insane and mad. (Well, guess what I see in her? A dumb, idot, girl that's was suppose to be blonde, but she didn't know tht difference so she said, "Oh Well!!!" and she's doesn't deserve him heart...--and nither do I..)
Alright to Raoul's point....he saw that Christine really did care for Erik, but he didn't want to admit it.(just like he didn't want to admit his love for her in the book--Gaston's) What did Raoul win then? Hummm he won that swordfight....naw that was nothing....he cheated! hehe! well, he sucks right? I believe that Erik (once again in my book's pretenses) won, but he didn't claim his prize. The only thing he claimed was Melonie's heart.....hummm so yeah! Erik won....phew! That was long!

Erika Owens:mask:

[angelofthenight]

I agree with so many others in saying that neither of them really won...each had a piece of Christine's heart but niether of them did , nor would they ever have it completely.

Even if Christine had stayed with Erik I think part of would've wanted Raoul and vise-versa. Even though Raoul did eventually win Christine's hand he never completely had her heart because part of it would always be with her angel of music.

[maskedsinger]

To be completely honest I think the Phantom won. If you think about it Christine was the first to recongize Raoul and Raoul only remembered her when she became a big star. Then he decided to go all "Little Lotte" on her. I also think the fact that Erik was always there for her and always believed her, Raoul didn't. He thought she was crazy when she said she met the Phantom and her Angel of Music. In many ways Erik is trying to protect her by being, "very strict." Raoul mocks this, I think that mocking the person who is teaching your 'love' how to sing isn't the most tender way in showing affection.

I also agree with the ring. He did always love her and he never forgot about her, then again Raoul didn't either. Eric gave her a rose and the ring, he never stopped thinking about her even after she chose Raoul, something that not everyone can do. If you think about it, if the love of your life runs off with another man, do you think you are going to be able to forget about them? Well in most cases you are going to want to forget and move on, but he never move on. In a way I think Erik won Christine because he showed that he loved her way more than Raoul.

This is just my opinion of course.

[tiannangel]

Hmm...yes, I think Erik won more than Raoul...Both got a little bit of Christine each, except somehow I feel that Erik got more of her heart than Raoul did. Especially in the last scene, when she is singing as she leaves him with Raoul, she turns back to look at Erik, as if she really didn't want to go. In the companion book, the Screenplay says:

The Phantom comes out of the bedroom and sees, through the descending grill, the boat disappearing into the darkness of the underground canal.
Christine is looking back at him. She seems to be singing for him.

That part clearly shows she had really strong feelings for Erik, and doesn't want to leave him. Yet she does, which still puzzles me somehow.

[IamErik771]

Well, I think by the end, Christine has consented to stay with Erik. Probably just so that he wouldn't kill Raoul, but I think the kiss (like the end of Leroux's novel) symbolized her agreement to stay with him. Erik, however, realized that he couldn't keep her prisoner and let them both go. So whether Christine really did want to stay with him or not, he released her of his own free will.

I think that in the end, neither of them won, especially in the ALW version. The stage version implies (and the film shows) that Christine died before Raoul, so neither of them ultimately end up getting to keep her. And in Leroux's novel, nobody knows whether Raoul and Christine really did get their "happily ever after" -- anything could have happened during or after the time when they left Paris.

But in a way, Erik and Raoul also both won, because both had a part of Christine's heart -- as others have said, Erik ignited the passionate side of her and helped her reach a level of artistic and vocal skill that nobody else could have. And Raoul, of course, was the one she was really in love with.

[The Countess]

I agree with the above but I'd like to add an additional thought of how Erik won too.

Remeber how Erik wanted Christine to "help him make the music of the night"? Then, at the finale, he sings out "it's over now the music of the night". In a way I think he was saying that because Christine had shown him human compassion by kissing him, his music, maybe symbolized as his life, was completed.

[sweet_intoxication]

Christine won.

The Phantom let her leave with Raoul.

Raoul no longer needed to fight over Erik for Christine.

[MlleMusique]

I don't think it's really fair to ask 'who won' like the story was a game, but in my opinion because Raoul and the Phantom both outlived Christine, no one won.

The story changed each of the characters irreparably. Sure, in the end Raoul got to keep Christine. But he received a changed woman from the one he first fell in love with. He would be haunted knowing that Erik let them go through his own mercy (and now understanding his capabilities) and Christine would forever be scarred by her ordeal.

(Even looking at the rest of the show: Carlotta lost Piangi, Mme Giry's secret was exposed, Andre and Firmin were ruined financially, Meg had her fears about the 'Opera Ghost' proven true...)

No one won.